Posts by Vincento

    Hey guys, just had a question regarding hero skills.

    Heroes get access to all your unlocked account skills, as soon the hero is unlocked on a character, right?. That made me think, what exactly is the point of [Hero Skill Trainer]s? Wouldn't it just be easier to buy the skill on one of your characters if you want your heroes to access it? It also seems these hero skill trainers offer (and accept payment for) unlocking skills you've already obtained on your account anyway.
    The wiki page on hero skill trainers doesn't really cover the above, and I'd be keen to know if there are simple things I'm missing somewhere regarding skills and heroes!

    Cheers!

    Sorry for the late reply, life has been extremely busy of late! That would be awesome! I think it would be fine, provided it's the only add-on being used. Other speedrunning communities have auto splitters to get exact timing correct. For something like guild wars where there are so many loading screens that can vary, I think it's warranted. I think that livesplit has some kind of built in functionality with this stuff, but this area isn't my forte!

    Work has cleared up significantly, I've already started practicing again and I intend to start runs in about a week's time.

    Update on progress.

    My route is now optimized and complete, just need to really practice some of the trickier areas, mainly Marketplace -> Boreas, the Boreas Mission, Zos Shivros Channel -> Gyala Hatchery, the Gyala Mission and the Raisu Palace mission. I'll hopefully be able to beat the game in around 2:50, 2:30 is probably possible if everything went absolutely perfect with good RNG. I'll see how things are going with practice progress, ideally I will be able to start doing full run attempts sometime in the next couple of days. Thank you to everyone who contributed to the route! I greatly appreciate you all helping in breaking Factions with me!

    Well not really. As it turns out some skills are useful in certain places and can save time, but you can't buy runes galore and then all the skills you could possibly ever want as well. I just have to be selective about how useful some skills areAdding 1k just means you can be less fussy about what you have to buy. It also just allows for a more consistent rule set.

    As someone who doesn't have the mercenary pack, I was just curious in knowing a few things about it that weren't obvious to me from reading about it online.

    I'm aware you can only make a level 20 character into a mercenary, but there's a few other (more obscure) things I'm curious about:

    -Can you use mercenaries with characters who are not yet level 20?
    -Is there an in-game cost to use them (ie. gold fee, etc.)?
    -When you initially add one to your party, do they come with any skills in their skill bar (I'm aware they have access to all unlocked skills)

    Cheers :)

    As someone who does only play with henchmen and no heroes in normal mode, I can confirm it's tricky by yourself! I feel as though there are plenty of HM videos/playthroughs out there already. You would probably have to offer more specific commentary to really aid people in their missions- eg. how to manage mob X, any tricks or things are aren't inherently obvious in missions that are useful, good positions, etc. This style is better for newer/inexperienced players- a lot of seasoned players will probably know most of the tricks. I feel these kind of videos should have to have information relevant to both sides of the spectrum. Much of the mission advice would be transferable across all classes and builds as well, I don't think you'd have to make 10 videos per mission, that's probably just making extra work for yourself!

    Speaking for myself, I'm relatively experienced in Factions missions and have some EotN experience, but I'm lacking the detailed mission knowledge from Nightfall and Prophecies. I'd probably find extra advice in these campaigns the most useful!

    Hope my input helps!

    Awesome! Appreciate it! Yeah those vermin are much easier to navigate past as long as you don't let them hit you more than once, otherwise you'll get knocked down and that'll be the end of that. The Jade Brotherhood have 3 mobs lined up in short succession coming from Bukdek and it's fine getting past the first but then the second mob will cut you down. With vermin, if you time your two IMS skills and shadow steps correctly, they shouldn't land a hit on you- much more consistent for runs!

    Looks like the switch from A/W to A/N will be a permanent one then. A/N will be slower and trickier through Shing Jea island. Notably, the secondary profession quests for warrior are likely the shortest ones in Factions from all the professions. That and running to the end of Minister Cho's estate to trigger the cutscene will be even harder without a second IAS skill at that point. Oh, and Maoshang Trail will be hard to run through as well. Other than those and just general areas where moving slightly faster saves some time it should be awesome. Overall, this skip should save me something like an hour I'd guess, so it's all for good reason!

    Wait, so you're telling me that the minion trick works with both of the gates into Xaquang? That's awesome news if it's true! It gives me additional flexibility in planning. The other plus is I believe there is less distance between the shrine to the gate, which will give me additional time to get the minion trick if that's the case!


    I can't promise a comprehensive list - there are hundreds of gates throughout the game, and most of them I have no idea about. I've only really tested a handful that can be exploited for mission records and stuff. I never tried Unwaking Waters, and I can't say for certain what the problem is, but I think it's something to do with the portal being right on the edge of the map.

    That's fair enough. And yes, the portal is right on the other side of the gate so you're probably right about that one.


    Interesting! I didn't think that would be possible... I'm familiar with the gate glitch of course, but getting the henchies through too... I'd love to see a video of it if you have one.

    I don't currently have a video of it, but rest assured that I'll be using this technique when I get my full speedruns in and I'll make sure I post my run somewhere on the legacy forums :)


    Yeah you can forget about Raisu Palace. As for Wajjun-Xaquang, that doesn't look glitchable either, and even if it was, you would get completely destroyed by all the Am Fah. What's the problem with coming from Bukdek, anyway? You can just flag henchies into the groups, can't you?

    Is Wajjun-Xaquang not the same gate style as Bukdek-Xaquang? The Am Fah aren't too bad. I actually have several work arounds. Firstly, I can run past them all and get to the shrine. I've done and tested this and it's not an issue. The issue with this method is it's slow to walk all the way around. It got me thinking about a possible deathwarp skip and so I managed to make one. It involves using [Recall@10]. I cast it on Su [Henchman] when I enter the area and then flag her towards the area under the bridge to Xaquang. Henchmen can't activate resurrection shrines so when she runs past it, it won't activate. In the mean time, I just get my health low using my health sacrificial skills and then when she gets to the area just before the first Am Fah, I stop maintaining the enchantment and warp past the shrine, not activating it in the process. At that point, I am low on health and just die from self bleeding. Then Su will resurrect me, and we both run through the Am Fah mobs a little way before dying. This will spawn you at the shrine above, near the Xaquang exit and means you don't have to run all the way around and go past the other mobs. It also gets rid of Su's rez signet. The only issue is sometimes the Am Fah under the bridge can get in the way and aggro your masterless minions when you're setting up the minion trick.

    The warp is just for funsies really, I don't know about the viability of it. Either way, the Am Fah in Wajjun Bazaar can be turned friendly by having the quest 'The Search for a Cure' active which you can can from Kaineng. That's what I did to save myself a lot of trouble when I was doing runs before and it's probably what I'd do in this case as well. All in all, the Am Fah aren't a problem for me- plenty of work arounds. It's more the Jade Brotherhood in Xaquang that completely wall me. I can't use the Recall trick to get past any other shrines that might be useful, other than the one in Wajjun Bazaar outside of the Marketplace.

    As for flagging henchmen to draw aggro, I only use Su to set up the minion trick. Otherwise I will have to burn through 7 other rez signets which is just painful. I guess worst case if I have no other way to do it, I can use more henchies (just not any healing henchmen). Otherwise I think I just prefer the Bukdek entry if it's possible. I still have yet to test both gates anyway.


    I did say you'd have a surprise =P if the list you're referring to is the one on the "Minion Trick" page on the wiki, that list isn't even remotely close to being complete. Maybe I'll update it a bit if I get some time.

    Yes, that's the list I was referring to. Updating it with your knowledge would be awesome. To have a comprehensive list might really help with what's possible in runs, for both factions and the other campaigns. Is it known why it's not possible to get into Unwaking Waters?


    couple of questions for you:
    1. When you've finished your run, will you measure the total time in seconds with a video (well, several videos edited together since presumably you won't do it all in one sitting), or in minutes with /age?
    2. Are you planning to fight the Luxons in Boreas Seabed, or have you thought of a way to solo the kraken spawns as a necro?

    1. I don't use /age, it's completely inaccurate- I tested it previously and it's not even a good rough indicator. If you zone into an area after spending 59 seconds in that area, it won't add a single second to your overall age. The time system is all rounded down to the nearest minute so it's not very precise. I use a program called LiveSplit which I fit into my recording layout so it's present throughout the run. The only issue with using purely real time is variations in loading times. I know that the GW running community uses some kind of add on timer that starts when you move and finishes when you zone. Something like this would be awesome if you could make it cumulative and make it run in outpost areas as well and only omitted loading screens. Unfortunately, I don't have nearly close to the know how to make something like that. I'm pretty sure LiveSplit has something you can fiddle with to set it up but it's too complicated for me :/

    2. I previously just fought the luxons. I've got boreas to around 5:30 with a new gate clip method though. It involves using the reef lurkers to clip through in the first wave and flagging henchmen away. After clipping through and flagging them around a bit, they teleport onto the other side of the gate, in roughly the same amount of time as it takes to clear the first Luxon wave. From there I finish the mission as per usual. I think a solo build is impossible. I haven't routed that far, but I am guessing you'll only be around level 12 at the time and with subpar items, armor and a very limited skillpool, I don't THINK it's possible? It's probably still faster to wait for the henchmen. I haven't timed it but it probably only takes about 30 seconds or so to wait for them to clip through. Sometimes the teleport isn't clean and not all henchies get through and the others die to the remaining luxons in the arena area. If it happens to be the monk henchmen it's a bit of an issue.

    As other question, if you know more of the gates, the only two ones I have in mind are the gate into Raisu Palace (pretty sure this gate is way too thick) and the gate into Xaquang Skyway from Wajjun Bazaar (rather than the one from Bukdek Byway). The one from Bukdek is really hard to run to Senji's corner solo, I haven't found a way as of yet. The other exit however just involves kiting around melee vermin.

    In regards to the zone swinging, as far as I can tell Breaker Hollow was only under control of Luxon for a 3 hour window before it got recaptured. It's back under Kurzick control and has been that way since it happened.

    Regarding the warp in Silent Surf, it's actually no longer relevant. I got around to finishing Gyala Hatchery on one of my spare characters, and as it turns out the gate into Unwaking Waters isn't actually skippable. Came as a surprise seeing as it's the same design as the other skippable ones. I tried with both a reef lurker and unmastered minions. I tried for about an hour and no cigar. It isn't in the list of know skippable gates anyway so I guess that makes sense.

    In a way I'm sad because it was a cute little deathwarp and gate clip to save a few minutes, but that kind of time save wouldn't have been ground breaking anyway. On the plus side I'm not sad that I'm forced to escort Togo because it means that I'm not going to have as much of a dependence on war front being advantageous. It also gives me an excuse to skill cap Spoiled Victor, which is cute for demolishing Kunnavang and Shiro. So it's not all bad I guess. It might have ended up being slower than grabbing Spoiled Victor anyway.

    So I have been keeping track of the Kurzick-Luxon territory line for 3 weeks now with out change. That is until today when Breaker Hollow switched over to the Luxon side. This unfortunately means that the death warp from outside this outpost will no longer work and I will have to run to Cavalon through all the mobs. My warp in Silent Surf also depends on the control of Leviathan Pits.

    How often do these zones change? I read about the momentum swing from taking outposts, does this means it's likely I will lose the warp from Leviathan too?

    What's the best way of contributing to their re-capture by the Kurzick? It would save me a lot of stress :D


    aye, I've seen the other thread - I only responded to this one koz my question related directly to this thread's topic, but we've clearly digressed a lot xD

    Assuming it's possible to get a good reef lurker spawn (I don't think it is), wouldn't you have to restart your entire run if you got an unfavourable spawn?
    How does the minion trick work? Kill something, make a strong minion, bring it to the gate, sacrifice yourself to death, and then run from the shrine before the minion dies? Or trust a henchie to res you without stealing aggro? xD

    It's definitely possible because I've had them before (I have tested Silent Surf, just without a gate being there).

    Yes, I kill something, usuallly a reef lurker that I aggro as close to the gate as I can and then run to it and glitch through. The nearby saltspray dragons also can catch the aggro of the Luxon warriors at the shrine if they use ride the lightning to me. I usually have around 15 or so seconds before the minion dies, more than enough to do the glitch :)
    The gate is close enough to the shrine that I don't need to bring a henchmen, they just slow the whole process down. It's doable, it's just annoying because it involves a lot of extra flagging.


    well it might work, but I don't think reef lurkers spawn close enough to the gate, you can't aggro the Luxons koz you'll have no Kurzick faction, and the only other way I can think of to pull an enemy would be coin dropping, which I have to assume you're not doing... anyway, the real nuisance is that in order to test the gate, you'll need a character that hasn't already been to Unwaking Waters, or the gate will already be open

    If the reef lurker is the only problem then it's not a problem. Some of them spawn closer to the shrine which are able to be pulled to the gate. In that case the run across Silent Surf is about 90-120 seconds. If one doesn't spawn I have other more unconventional methods involving masterless minions which takes up to about 3-4 minutes to pull off in total.

    As for it being annoying to test, I'm going to have to do several full game runs for practice and route optimization anyway, so it won't be an issue. I estimate a good full game run might take a little under 3 hours to complete if all the theorycraft routing I'm doing is correct. I won't have the time to do the real optimization for another week or so.

    I've started a Factions speedrun thread in PvE builds and I'll probably discuss my progress in there when I really get the ball rolling. :)

    Still good to know more things though! I won't be doing all the missions. Prior to knowing about the gate skips I did runs that by the linear nature of Factions, did all the missions. I'm excited to be able to improve my time with these new skips. Doing all the missions could warrant its own category but it just seems much grindier and I don't really see the appeal :P


    As for glitching through the gate, you might have an unpleasant surprise when you attempt that...

    Oh really? I'd love to hear ahead of time :P I'll still try regardless of course, but is there something I'm missing here?


    Surely to get into Unwaking Waters, you have to bring Togo with you as part of the quest? Are you using a dialog hack to get in??

    To get into Arborstone and Altrumm Ruins early, leave Tanglewood Copse with more Luxon than Kurzick faction, and die anywhere you like - right outside the portal will do. You'll res in the middle of the map, from where you can run to either outpost. This doesn't allow you to skip Boreas Seabed, since you need to do Sunjiang District before you can get into House zu Heltzer the front way (then again, perhaps you can dialog that too). However, it does give you access to Kurzick areas without having to do the whole Luxon side or Tahnnakai Temple, which you might conceivably want to do.

    I intend to do a gate clip to get into Unwaking Waters. Sure, you can escort Togo, but to do it safely with henchmen takes about 6 or 7 minutes, whereas warping and then glitching through takes 2-4 depending on your luck. I'm not sure I know what a dialogue hack is- should I know? I am fairly sure it's possible to clip on that gate, but I haven't attempted it yet. It's the same kind of gate as Boreas Seabed and Gyala Hatchery and I already know it's possible for those, so I don't see why it wouldn't work. The only reason I might decide to still escort Togo is if skill capping Spoil Victor ends up being too good to not do, which at that point in the game it might not be worth doing. Spoil Victor helps but it doesn't guarantee getting Kuunavang low enough to skip all the gates in Unwaking Waters. It only saves like 15-20 seconds on Imperial Sanctum too. I'll make those optimization decisions later.

    That early Kurzick trick is simple enough. Only thing is for a speedrun you would technically need to start the run with 0 faction of each if it mattered to the outcome of the run. In your case, you'd need more Luxon than Kurzick faction from the natural progression of the game to perform that warp res. I do the gate skip into Boreas so opposing faction isn't ever an issue for this run- it has no impact because at no point do you even get Kurzick faction (as far as I'm aware).

    It's not to get into either of those places. It's just to save running time from having to walk across an entire explorable area. For the two examples above, it's coming through Breaker Hollow into Archipelagos, then dying just across where the border crosses over which then spawns you outside of Cavalon. If you die too close to Breaker Hollow, you end up resurrecting at Jade Flats (Luxon). The other time I use it is going from Leviathan Pits through Silent Surf and into Unwaking Waters (Luxon) where I run south to the island guardian monk boss mob and die. That spawns me in the island in the middle of silent surf which saves a cute little chunk of time. From there I can run the rest of the way to the mission outpost.

    Random aside: A skip into Arborstone won't be useful for a run because Luxon is so much faster and has more skips, but how do you do it? Just for funsies :)
    [hr]
    I thought of another way of justifying the material trader. The rule set I came up with was meant to be as if you just booted up Guild Wars for the first time and pretending there's not a single soul online. Without anyone online, the material trader NPC (and the other traders) will still be there and still sell materials. Not using the trader is kind of just like neglecting part of the game that helps you out I feel. The only difference is that the market would be (almost) static in that situation whereas it currently isn't. If ArenaNet decided to shut down their servers and happened to make Guild Wars single playable, they aren't going to remove those NPCs from the game.

    This situation does still mean you can't access storage because nothing would be in there. There would be no other players to trade with and you can only buy skills from where they offered them initially, etc etc. But I think assuming there's no other players online does technically (by definition) make it a single player game- you'd be the sole person playing it! At the end of the day, for something that's an MMORPG, I think my rules just about do their best in minimizing other player interactions. You'll never be able to fully remove all of them anyway, but is still enjoyable to watch. Materials aren't free anyway, you still have to have the gold to pay for them.

    One is a direct interaction with a single player whilst the other is a more random interaction with a wide network of players- one where a single person struggles to make a game breaking impact on their own. One that isn't a set outcome. Someone giving you a bunch of items designed for you to break the game is a very specific and set player interaction. Using a material trader that the entire population influences is far closer to just a random interaction/outcome wouldn't you say? And technically, I'm not interacting directly with a player, the material trader is an NPC. But by that weak arguement, so is the storage agent and there are obvious faults there.

    Unfortunately player influence is 100% unavoidable. For example, I use a series of deathwarps specific to outposts that are controlled by Kurzick (Breaker Hollow, Leviathan Depths). I have more Luxon faction than Kurzick and so by dying outside those outposts, I warp to the next closest neutral/Luxon shrine across the map. That's only possible if the Kurzick-Luxon boundary stays where it currently is. Would dying then constitute as a player interaction? What if it was unintentional? It often can be. Either way, that's a time save that comes as a direct consequence of other players. Granted, the border is very stable, I've been monitoring it for a long time now and it hasn't and likely won't ever move.

    I think my current rule set is about as fair and logical as the 'find the crafting materials yourself' mentality. The death warps mentioned above are perfect examples of that.

    Hey!

    This looks fun! Keep us updated :)

    Will do Nico :) I've been pretty busy as of late so I'm not yet able to sit down and really polish/optimize my factions route yet. Still just coming up with little ideas and writing them down, but I have a lot of testing to do when I find the proper time. Glad to have your interest on board!

    Side note 1: Before I found all these skips which has completely changed the route of this as a speedgame, I had already done a run that wasn't very good but involved all the missions in a bit over 6 hours. With a good run of that route, close to or just under 5 hours would have been a good run. It's here if you are keen, but I've listed it as private because the run is actually terrible and I'd prefer to only publish a good run :P The new route should be fun though. When I get a good run, I'll make sure to do some good post-commentary too :D

    Side note 2: I'm actually working on a Prophecies run as well and have a fairly concrete route set for the most part of the game so far. I have yet to create a thread for it because most of my focus in the short term will be on getting a good factions run (hopefully sub 3 hours based of purely estimation). It's my intention to do a good run of all the campaigns individually, including EotN and perhaps even a super run of 'all campaigns' in a single segment!

    ...then why use the material traders? You're still trading with actual players; just using a NPC middleman. If it was truly single player, you would have to farm everything for yourself.

    If that were the case it wouldn't be much of a speedrun and more of a sped up normal play through. In a factions run, there is no point where you have to stop and farm anything, it's just go go go. It's better to just plan around potential fluctuations- even the most expensive of the expensive prices at the trader is more efficient than waiting for items to salvage into 1 or 2 bolts of cloth, as well as because of how abundant gold is comparatively (especially in Factions compared to other campaigns). After all, you need 48 of a material to make a full armor set- I just would craft legs and chest and keep on going. Farming crafting materials yourself would be too slow and you'd probably just try and progress through the game with starter armor and hope for the best. It would just be incredibly tedious and you'd have to take a lot of running zones slow or fight your way through with henchmen. That or die and reset the run a lot :P

    On another note, I'm still collating data on feather, cloth, tan hide and iron ingots prices 4-5 times a day, for almost two weeks now. I'm able to see some neat little relationships between buy and sell prices- I might even be able to derive the formula if I was bothered, but I'm probably not because it won't help me much. Has few practical implications anyway. I'm hoping to keep collecting data to get a better idea of an average price of these materials. I might post the results later if you're particularly interested, but it's nothing too riveting.

    Just a first post, this is where I intend to discuss any of my Factions speedrunning related questions/strats/builds.
    For some backdrop on what speedrunning this entails:

    GOAL
    To complete the game as fast as possible. Technically, that only involves beating the ‘Imperial Sanctum’ mission as fast as possible.

    GENERAL SPEEDRUN RULES
    -Essentially the game is to be played as if it was the first character created on your account. This is the fundamental rule that must be adhered to. Major game rules include (but are likely not limited to):

    -Skills may only be purchased from the skill trainers they are originally purchased from.
    -Access to storage is prohibited.
    -Runs must be completed in a single-segment.
    -Runs must be completed without any help from other players (using inactive districts is strongly recommended).
    -Hard mode must be disabled.
    -Use of tomes is prohibited
    -Access to other campaigns is prohibited.
    -Any special event items/interactions are also prohibited (this includes things like bonus exp/faction weekends).
    -Any glitches/exploits/bugs/skips/clips are allowed
    -No third party programs allowed, ie. programmable macros, etc.

    FACTIONS SPECIFIC:
    -Kurzick/Luxon faction must be zero at the beginning of the run (doesn't really matter now as you skip 'Befriending the Luxons' in an any% run anyway)
    -No use of /bonus item other than 'Igneous Summoning Stone'.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well since discovering the gate glitches my route is now going to be a lot shorter. The gate skip into Gyala allows me to skip the 'Befriending the Luxons Quest and Sunjiang District + other quests. Then the other gates known to be useful for clipping are the one into Boreas Seabed which lets you skip a bunch of quests and the very hard Tahnnakai Temple mission and the gate(s?) into Xaquang Skyway (skips Vizunah Square and Nahpui Corner + quests).

    I've confirmed I'm able to do the one into Gyala by aggroing the Reef Lurker spawn nearby (if it's in range). I still need to test if my self sac necro build will work for this gate as assurance (if the reef lurker spawns too far from the gate and I would have to re-run from Cavalon).

    The glitches into Boreas and Xaquang are both done in the same fashion, but using masterless minions and other enemies instead. Typically these are done with skills from outside the Factions campaign (Aura of the Lich + sac hero to make it masterless or something along those lines, there are few variants but they use the same principles) and using heroes which I wont have access to either. I don't have time to test Xaquang yet (really busy atm) but I have some theory in place that should hopefully see me able to clip the gate without heroes or skills outside of factions attainable at that point. This would however require me to go A/N and also means I'd skip out on shadow form.

    For Boreas I had a character who was nearby and I was able to confirm that I had three different ways of successfully clipping. One way is that sometimes a tiger will spawn near the gate. This is the easiest method, and is just like the reef lurker. However, it's rare that it spawns in range of the gate, but not impossible. The second is aggroing the nearby wallows to kill all the Luxon at the gate and then using shadow form to not die and aggro them to the gate. This is tricky because of the level gap, their constant melee knock downs and lack of survivabilty, but thankfully the resurrection shrine is right next to the gate so you can keep trying. If I get the Xaquang gate skip to work, it's likely this method will be impossible (without shadow form you die in seconds). Either way, it's the hardest of the three but like the tiger can be done as A/Any and will be my method should Xaquang be unskippable.

    The third way of skipping the gate is a homebrew self-sac build which will be identical to the method I intend to try at the Xaquang gate later. It involves selecting A/N and using this build or something similar:
    [build=OwRSU2fNTwGIuDBeANE4hSG]
    You kill something and summon a melee minion (highest level lets it live longer), move it to the gate and then sac yourself to death to make it masterless. You then respawn right nearby and can shadowstep to it and use it to clip.

    The Xaquang gate is substantially harder and you need to bring along Su [Henchman]. You then sac yourself and she will resurrect you using her signet. The second time you sac yourself, she will use animate flesh golem. You can then rez at the closest shrine and run back to the gate where Su is flagged. When you get there, sac yourself to low but not dead to give you more time, and wait for the golem to die and leave a corpse. You can then flag Su away to interrupt her from resummoning a golem and allowing you to make your own minion. Once you do so, sac yourself immediately and get ready to run back to the gate from the shrine. It's a lot futher than the Boreas shrine so you really have to run as fast as possible to give yourself enough time. I think that gives you a 10-ish second window to try and get the clip. I will have to test it with a new character seeing all of mine had already gotten past that point and had no actual gate there, but I assume it will work!.

    Anyway, after that long detour of background, if all the gates work, I'll likely be level 12 or so in Gyala as opposed to the usual level 20, and without shadow form. Survivablity will be much more of an issue I imagine. Not sure what to do about skill builds, but I'd imagine I might skill cap [Spoil Victor=] on the way through Silent Surf, so that I can kill Kuunavang really fast (and other bosses I guess). It might not be faster than just running, but I'll have a play around when I get time. I don't expect to be doing much running without Shadow form, I'll likely just have to fight a lot of stuff with henchmen, which leads me to wonder if skipping the gate in Xaquang is even going to be any faster (my guess is it should be, but I no longer have sprint as a third IMS skill and the necro quests on Shing Jea take longer than the warrior counterparts, lower overall level, less running/more fighting, etc). Time will tell I guess, I won't be able to test these builds/ideas til later this month. Feel free to brainstorm anything that might be useful in the meantime. It seems that Factions will no longer be a campaign speedrun that just holds your hand :)

    Piercing it is :D

    I only use daggers in missions that are too difficult to just run through or require killing enemies/escorts i.e. Vizunah Square, etc. I use any shields I pick up for running areas or in difficult to survive areas of missions. When I have dagger skills it's usually only Golden Lotus Strike (energy management), Golden Phoenix Strike + Death Blossom. I felt like it was an effective attack chain, but I might have to look into a sword or axe one. I don't have too many spaces to give up is part of the issue. Usually only 2-3 and the rest have to be survivability/speed running skills. I'd be interested to hear if you have any other alternates you think might be more affective (again, digressing from what this thread was initially about).

    I might look into making those forums shortly and then leave this forum for any additional general Trader concerns. I'll try the PvE thread I guess :)

    Good news!

    I have come up with a routing solution regarding getting 50 cloth/tanned hide at Seitung Harbor that has really just been staring me in the face the entire time. I have four monastery credits after I finish the 'Choose your Secondary Profession' quest from that, 'Forming a Party' which I did for early experience (as it only takes a few seconds), 'Dual Strike' and 'Crop Thieves'.

    The first thing I normally do after this quest is go talk to Headmaster Lee to get the Sprint skill. Conveniently, I can just talk to one of the two Monastery Quartermasters on the way and cash them in for four Scrolls of Adventurer's Insight and re-sell them to a merchant for 400g. This will pretty well cover the cost of any inflation, and if I know the price is already low, I can buy a few insignias/runes on the way through to Sunqua Vale which would only cost a few extra seconds to the run. In fact, looking at my notes, I believe when I routed cloth was often 100g each and I would have 250 gold spare in that case, meaning with 400g extra I could buy up to 6 different runes/insignias.

    As to which insignias/runes are best, I'm not sure (advice on this?). The 400 extra means that depending on the price of both materials and insignias. The price of insignias has not really changed- I looked them up months ago and the same cheap ones are still 100g now. The cheapest ones are Rune of Purity, Vanguard's Insignia, Infiltrator's Insignia, Saboteur's Insignia and all the Assassin runes except for Minor Crit Strikes and Minor Dagger Mastery.

    The cheaper insignias all give a flat 10 AR bonus to a piece + 10 AR for either blunt, piercing or slashing damage. I'm not sure on the damage breakdown in factions exactly an which insignia would be best. My guess is maybe the piecing one seeing as I'm more likely to die while running past big mobs rather than fighting alongside henchmen, and it's more likely I get damaged by range attack than melee ones. It might just depend on the kinds of foes I encounter post-Seitung Harbor. Does factions have an abundance of one of these damage types?

    Rune of Purity is the only cheap rune available for all professions. Not sure how often 20% less in poison and disease will come into play on the route, I don't remember these conditions being a specific problem. I'm judging that from its price it isn't used as much, and there's probably a reason for that- it seems pretty useless.

    The assassin specific runes, all major and superior kinds are available for 100g each, as are minor deadly and shadow arts. I feel like the health deficit of major and superior runes don't outweigh their benefits, especially when I'm under levelled already (unless I'm missing something).

    Just a guess for order priority (assuming they stack), I would say:
    100 Spare: 1x Infiltrator's Insignia (on chest)
    200 Spare: 1x Infiltrator's Insignia (on chest) + 1 minor rune of shadow arts
    300 Spare: 2x Infiltrator's Insignia (on chest and on legs) + 1 minor rune of shadow arts
    400-650 Spare: 3-5x Infiltrator's Insignia + 1 minor rune of shadow arts

    I'm neglecting dagger mastery and critical strikes because they are more expensive and I don't have high enough damage output anyway, nor am I often using overly offensive builds. The +1 it would give is likely negligible.

    Of course this all might help my problems in factions, but the selling price varience of feathers/buying price of iron ingots for Prophecies still remains. I think for the most part prices are pretty reasonable though. The person I spoke to on reddit rightfully told me that it's in the best interests of feather bot farmers to keep the sale price of feathers as high as they can. Not only that, but I am also trying to level at the same time. I will have to check what comes first, hitting my target level or getting the money I need (of course it comes down to item drops, but I mean on average). Another thing I'll have to make sure to ask about/figure out later in more detail is the most efficient way of farming in North Kryta Province.

    On a related note, how and where should I post my speedrun related questions? Should I just make one thread for all campaign questions, or just post individual threads on new topics? I feel like the latter would make it easier to follow specific questions/problems, but I don't want to clutter the forums unnecessarily either. I'd guess that it's probably more suitable to post in Forums -> Plains of Ashford -> General?

    Cheers :)

    In response to your thoughts:

    -Fluctuating prices has variable advantages. For feathers, because I'm farming and selling them to get a specific total, the sale price directly affects how fast I can complete this objective (pretty bad thing, far too swingy- from what I've already monitored so far, somewhere between 260 and 480 per 10). For cloth/hide, their prices matter less. I have a finite amount of money. A higher price means I have to deviate from the direct nature of the run to farm unnecessarily, a lower price means I'd have extra spending cash (which I'd probably just buy some insignias or something with). Having extra money isn't really crucial in that situation, you sort of lose time by buying something, but it increases the run's consistency by a little bit. Fixing a price in that situation would mean you could at least stick to a simple routing plan.

    -I never liked the player dependence that came with your previous idea, this one seems much better. I could just deposit my cash into storage as payment and withdraw the materials. It's not a bad idea. The things that still bother me about this idea: 100g to access materials, the storage agent is found in a different location to trader, finding rule consistency with a 'no storage rule, except for this and that exception'.

    -The conditions seem true, but I'm having trouble with categorizing what is and isn't allowed already. My first struggle was with /bonus- the weapons and fire imp ally. In the end I figured since the Imp upgrade came with all the games you purchase now it should be legal in every campaign, where as the game of the year upgrade for prophecies is specific to that and you should only be allowed to use those weapons in that campaign.
    Now my issue comes in bugs/glitches. I always thought they patched a fix for jumping gates, which is true for shadow stepping and teleporting. However, it's not true for using a minion to clip. The other day I found out I'll be able to clip into Gyala Hatchery, allowing me to skip Sunjiang district and Befriending the Luxons among other things. This to me seems an acceptable glitch to use in any% runs and I intend to use it. Unfortunately due to not having hero access, I don't think I can do the same skips into Xaquang Skyway or Boreas Seabed (there is potential of using a nearby wallow instead of a masterless minion). If you know of any other potentially useful glitches/bugs I'm all ears! (Will probably make a new thread for something like this)
    However there's also been a bug discovery that would be useful for speedruns called the ID bug (link here). It's apparently shunned in the speedclearing community. In the general speedrunning community, it's hard to say whether or not this would be allowed, but my gut would say yes on the condition you aren't using a third party program to macro it. I'm pretty sure this would be impossible to do without macros though (still need to test). There's no way third party programs are different from cheating- it's like using aim hacks in a shooting game speedrun.
    TLDR: I'm not sure about where it would fit as a category, ie. any% fixed prices.

    -It's never okay. If there was a current patch single-player version of the game, I'd 100% prefer it.


    Maybe this would violate some kind of speedrunner code of ethics or something, but perhaps you could just determine the average prices of the relevant materials, then find a player who'll act as a merchant to buy/sell at those prices. I know speedruns always have random/uncontrollable elements that require luck to get the perfect run, but I wouldn't have a problem with someone fixing the economy like this. MMO's aren't typically speedrun material, afaik.

    You know, although it might look pretty bad to do that, it probably isn't. You're right in saying MMO's don't make for good running material for the most part. GW's exploreable areas and low player counts these days mostly redeem that though, it's essentially a single-player game anyway.

    The reason it's not the worst idea is that markets are player influenced, so to say prices are just randomness in the game isn't correct, especially after hearing the guy from reddit talk about it. The fact that some people have THAT much influence on price can be devastating. It also means that secretly pulling strings on another account to reduce prices just before I get to an area I need to purchase materials is essentially cheating anyway. The only real difference between that and doing a private, price-fixed trade is one is done openly and one is more dishonest (and complicated/expensive).

    As far as I can tell there's only three approaches to the issue. Treating it as if it were RNG when it can already be heavily exploited, price fixing, or just banning traders entirely and having to salvage the materials myself (no way in hell is that happening). I'll stay open to the idea and keep monitoring the market prices over a longer period. I'm sure that price fixing will grow on me more if the market stays out of control over a long period.

    Update: I decided that for my own curiosity, I would collate data for the prices of cloth, hide (a cloth alternative) and feathers. Over the past 48 hours, the price of cloth has steadily risen from 140g to 220g. For me this is concerning, putting it well out of the range of what's affordable in a speedrun that early in the game (700g vs 1100g). I'm not sure why there's been such a marked increase in price so quickly, but the nature of this kind of market volatility endangers consistent speedruns.

    I can't think of a reason as to why cloth would suddenly spike in demand, any suggestions there? I'm also curious to hear how high people have ever seen cloth go and if anyone knows how long periods of inflation of common materials can last. From what I have ever remembered, cloth seemed to hover from 140-150g pretty much every time I checked.

    As for feathers, I guess 500-700 is a fairly common buying price range so there's nothing too weird about that one for me.

    I only wish I had enough money/cloth to try and drive the price down myself!

    Hey guys.

    I've been meaning to ask in the forums for some time in regards to this. I figured it was better to post it here rather than in Guru seeing as it won't be around soon :(

    I have been attempting to speed run the guild wars games for some time now. It takes a lot of careful planning to do so. When planning eliminating inconsistencies where possible is ideal. However, buy/sell price fluctuations at these traders is a constant issue. My speed running projects mean that I need to buy materials to craft armor or farm materials to sell for gold.

    For example, in my Factions speedrun, I need to buy exactly 50 bolts of cloth at Seitung Harbour, as I get there to craft armor with it. Getting the armor at this point of the game is crucial for time efficiency and progression. I usually have only enough money to buy them at 140g per 10 (perhaps 150 or so? I forgot exactly where the cutoff is). Should the price increase too high, it would make doing efficient runs impossible.

    Another example is in Prophecies where I need to farm feathers from outside Lion's Arch to get enough gold to buy high AR armor as soon as possible. This is the most accessible way of farming at that point in the game whilst also power leveling. Now, if feathers start only selling for 500g per 10, that means that the ability at how fast I can farm is diminished, whereas if the price jumps up to say 800, it suddenly becomes much quicker to get the gold I need to progress in the run.

    Being able to understand these price changes may or may not help in trying to find a solution to my issue, but either way I feel like understanding their mechanics would help regardless. A few specific questions I had regarding the changing prices were:

    1. Are the prices the same at every trader in the game at the same moment, or does the price vary from trader to trader (ie. in Seitung Harbor vs in Lions Arch, between different servers, etc.)?
    2. Is there a price ceiling/floor in place on prices (I don't think they can sell for less than 100g per 10, is there an upper limit)?
    3. What causes a material's price to either increase or decrease (is it based on supply/demand)?
    4. How often do price changes occur (daily, hourly, instantaneously, etc.)?
    5. Is there an artificial way of manipulating the prices offered at traders?

    Any answers or additional information you think might come in handy would be much appreciated!

    Heya everyone!

    I'm Vincento from Guru as well, I had previously posted regarding doing full campaign solo speed runs!

    Guild wars has been a part of my life since 2007, starting with factions and then moving to the other campaigns. I took a break for a couple of years and during that time, took up other hobbies- one of them being speed running. I returned to the community sometime last year after getting the idea to revisit the games by adding the additional difficulty of trying to complete them as quickly as possible in a single segment.

    I've currently got Factions and Prophecies routes in the works and intend to get runs in of those games in the next holidays (starting in June). I do these with no outside help and from start to finish, only using henchmen. I have the aim of eventually getting good runs in of all the main campaigns and possibly finishing all campaigns at once! I aim to improve my time in factions to around 5 hours and I'm hoping to get Prophecies done in 8-10.

    The community at Guru was very helpful in helping finding the best approaches to my runs! Looking forward to bonding with you all once again in an attempt to go fast :D

    ~Vincento