Posts by Captain Krompdown

    Praise Sorry, man. I'm one of the few trying to keep this on topic.

    Can Legacy police the sale of botted items?

    Some people say yes. They want people, threads, and items investigated and tagged if suspicious or taken down completely.

    I don't think that's realistic. People have their reasons and their examples and I have mine.


    And thanks, Praise for bringing back those 2 threads. In both of those threads, I had to defend myself and [PhD] against unsolicited and baseless accusations of hacking and RMTing. They're excellent examples of how unproductive witch hunts can be. They also just demonstrate the fact that I'm not derailing the thread by pointing to my guild's experience. But I'd love to hear about how I'm derailing this thread or what interests you imagine are being served :rolleyes:


    First Yoji feels like an outcast because of something or other I and others said.

    Then Ardunain starts asking questions about [PhD] (though not in a confrontational way, that was understood)

    Then Invokeur wonders if I'm calling task manager magic

    Now Praise accuses me of de-railing this thread, then he promptly proves himself wrong, and wraps it up with another empty accusation about working some nefarious agenda.


    Try to stay on topic, lads...

    ...or were you trying to make my point for me?

    Are you actually calling the task manager of Windows computer magic ?

    This is idiotic.


    I suppose it's possible that 1 person with 2 hands could legitimately play 3 accounts simultaneously. Legitimately playing means 1 keystroke = 1 action on 1 account.


    Is it likely that anyone really plays that way on 3 accounts for 8-9 hours per day with no extra help? No. That sounds miserable. Actually, it sounds miserable even with the extra help. I am but a leisurely gentleman.


    This all is really just proving the point that I and others have made about the impossibility of regulating this from above. The process of labeling threads (or people) as suspicious only leads to bickering and people adjusting how and what they post to avoid being tagged.


    I think it's important to understand that [PhD] has been the target of witch hunters for years. This site and Guru before it are littered with baseless attempts to question the integrity of my guild. Now we have several (5?) representatives from [PhD] arguing against implementation of witch hunts as site policy. There's nobody who understands better how obnoxious the proposed process can get.


    We can discuss in general terms what we find acceptable and what we don't. Always interesting to hear. But it's too much to expect Legacy to screen every item that gets posted. It will always come down to people making choices for themselves. Again, [PhD] is a case in point. We have clear and well-enforced policies about this kind of thing. Not every guild does and not every guild makes the same choices or enforces things in meaningful ways. Our choices have made us who we are. Your choices will do the same.


    I wish that people didn't do things to give themselves unfair advantages over others. Would be nice if there was no RMT. Or botting. Or accounts being bought, sold, hacked, and harvested. But there are. And there always will be. And they will be on Legacy, even if rules are put in place that make it more inconvenient for them to be here.


    In the end, like so many others have said, botting isn't a new story, even if there's a new wave of people talking about it.

    O O O Yoji O O O I'll bite. I think you may have things a little twisted.

    • You say that you "feel like an outcast" because of things Kabong, Spun Ducky, and I have said on this thread. This is bizarre because we're the ones arguing for individual choice and community standard-setting (which supports individual choice). Spun Ducky is even using you as an example of a case where someone might be labeled as a botter when they're really not. You really couldn't ask to be handled more gently.
    • Meanwhile, you're :heart: ing posts that are in favor of threads like yours being labeled as suspicious or taken down completely. You complain about being the victim of a witch hunt but then you support posts that ask for witch hunts.
    • Finally, after declaring yourself not a botter, you post screenshots of some of the computer magic you use to play a superhuman amount of Guild Wars. ?( wut ?( Β 

    There's a lot more to say (because you're not the only one directly reaping the benefits of your questionable actions) but I'll leave it at that for now.

    Sorry you're feeling down.

    ardunain Provenance is a difficult thing to establish, even for collectibles in real life. I'm not sure it's feasible to expect that out of this game. If you look closely enough, you'll also find that there are major collections that include items that only reached the market because of hacking. The same kind of thing happens in real life. The distribution of art, for example, has been heavily influenced by the horrors of WWII. Some of these things get returned, some apologies and statements are issued, but the world is still left with the scars of its past. All we can do is expect better from each other moving forward and make a community effort to say what we will and won't accept in our forum. Enforcement from "above", though? I'm not sure that's realistic.

    ardunain Your proposal relies on "obvious" cases. Those cases are obvious because they've provided incriminating evidence of botting. They'll just stop doing that.


    As far as [PhD] members acquiring botted items, I'm assuming that you're (still) talking about one recent thread where some pretty unremarkable items were being given away. It's worth noting that you're talking about a give away, not a sale. There is no advantage gained by giving items away. Selling botted items creates an unfair advantage for the seller. They become rich and squeeze other people out of the market. Selling botted items (which is what we're talking about) directly affects the quality of life of players who don't cheat. If people were out there botting items just so they could play Santa Claus, I doubt we'd be having this conversation at all.


    As for the integrity of [PhD] collections, just remember: You can't bot the good stuff ;)

    Ravaidan Jalir Please don't twist my words. The thread is pointless because Legacy can't do anything to police the sale of botted items, not because cheaters gonna cheat. We're having this conversation because the question was raised about whether Legacy could police this specific community. The answer is no. But we can police ourselves and we do that by letting each other know what we think is ok and not ok.


    For example, are shitty, manipulative, predatory price checks ok? Nope. But there's nothing Legacy can do about that (other than getting rid of PCs). But people have changed at least some of that behavior thanks to us policing ourselves.


    This is just one example and it's the only one I'll give because I'm typing on my phone. The point is that policing ourselves can work. But it requires people to invest some energy into maintaining the integrity of the game they love and the community within which they play it. Your complaints about the community policing itself only serve to defend people who cheat and who consistently, knowingly benefit from cheating. Some of those people share a cape with you. Funny, that.


    ardunain That's exactly the kind of thing that people will just stop posting if they know it will mark them as a botter and keep them from selling items. The sales won't disappear but the "research" posts will. Or items will be put up for sale on an alt account or using a middleman. Or something else. It's impossible to police from Legacy's end.

    i think its still funny that people still give a fuck in general.


    ...dont you have better things to do...?

    Aren't these the things we should be saying to the people cheating (and the ones consistently, knowingly benefiting from the cheating), not the ones objecting to it?


    All most normal people want is a fair chance to enjoy the game they've chosen to play. Stop defending people who take that away from others.


    Back on topic: What can Legacy do about it? Nothing. Are you hoping that they'll establish the provenance of every item before allowing it to be posted here? This issue is impossible to police just based on how a thread looks (e.g., lots of items) or who posted the thread.


    Pointless thread, imo, which is why I've been avoiding it, despite being tagged. That was kind of obnoxious. I hope that doesn't become a thing. It's like being invited to help clean out a septic tank.

    If the game was burning down and I could only grab one item while fleeing the guild hall, it would have to be this one.


    KkujkRa.png


    I've been lucky enough to get my hands on just about every item I've ever dreamed of...but then there's the one I never would've imagined <3

    ....as are the days of 15% unconditional weapons being up for sale (particularly in req 8). Let's not be confused about what the fantasy is here πŸ˜‰


    Let's just pretend that 1000-2000a is the max cash bid these days. That can get you an awful lot. It gets you a nice req 8 crys. But, just for reference, a req 8 stance crys is only the beginning of what I traded for Teh Axe 10+ years ago.


    I understand that Stexe 's question was about unconditionals in general, not just Teh Axe. As PyroLobster said, no two are alike so sales (if they existed recently) couldn't really be compared and would provide no solid basis for generalization. The same goes for the price I paid for Teh Axe. Other unconditionals have changed hands for lower prices, but those were lesser items and were sold years ago, when there were more uncusto'd unconditionals on active accounts. I'm sure _Todeshand_ would be willing to fill you in on the sales he was part of.


    These days, though? Buying any unconditional is the dream (hence Stexe 's question). It would be fun to see. But Teh Axe for 1-2ka is strictly fantasy ^^

    It would be fun to see an offer from someone with a +15%^Unconditional vs. that one selling the q8 Crysta for 4 years: "tOo lOw SorRrY" :D


    I can tell you that there's no swampy, crys, dwarven, or mini that would make me even consider trading Teh Axe. Hundreds of armbraces wouldn't even begin to come close.


    I wouldn't trade it for a full set of perfect req 8 swamp/dwarven/crys or a screen full of kanaxais. I can't think of a number of armbraces (that the game could actually support) that would make me consider selling.


    Literally priceless. That's the market πŸ˜‰