Dungeon drop rates

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    Little while back bought some new accounts mostly for storage. Decided to have 1 toon on each capable of getting nick sets ect so ran them around. Figured it was a good opportunity to do a little test id been meaning to do for years to answer the question: Do new accounts / new characters get better drops? I've been running dungeon for years and always had many accounts to get extra chests / running other people for books / points / ZB. It always seemed to be that the sought after chest rewards (Silverwing, BDS, Emerald Edge ect) went to characters than were opening that chest for the 1st or 2nd time and characters that had opened it many times rarely got anything. My theory was the first 3 opens of any given dungeon chest give a dramatically increased chance of the item(s) unique to that chest dropping and after that it becomes very low. I realize to some / most this is kinda known / assumed to be true but I've never seen it tested its always just anecdotal.

    I had 6 characters on 6 separate accounts all who had done nothing but finish eotn and run around a few other towns. Ran them through 9 dungeons (so far), 3 times each in hard mode. So 6 drops per character per dungeon.

    Did them in this order over 2 days:
    1) Arachni's Haunt, 2) Oolas Lab, 3) Rragar's Menagerie, 4) Sepulchre of Dragrimmar, 5) Ooze Pit, 6) Darkrime Delves, 7) Frostmaws's Burrows, 8)) Bloodstone Caves, 9) Catacombes Of Kathandrax

    Results: (Numbered 1-3 to indicate if it was 1st 2nd or 3rd chest open).

    Account #1:
    2 - Q9 Insectoid Scythe
    2 - Q11 Insectoid Staff
    2 - Q13 Emerald Edge
    Account 2:
    1 - Q11 Storm Dagger
    2 - Q12 Clockwork Scythe
    1 - Q10 Silverwing Recurved Bow
    Account 3:
    2 - Q13 Signet Shield
    2 - Q10 Cobalt Staff
    1 - Q13 Golden Horn Staff
    Account 4:
    1 - Q11 Dryad Bow
    1 - Q12 Astral Staff
    2 - Chrysocola Staff
    Account 5:
    2 - Q12 Turquoise Staff
    2 - Q13 Demon Fangs
    2 - Q12 Ancient Moss Staff
    Account 6:
    1 - Q9 Insectoid Staff
    1 - Q12 Cobalt Staff
    2 - Q11 Violet Edge
    3 - Q9 Topaz Scepter

    So ignoring data size problem which is obviously present this is what happened:
    - In all 9 dungeons we got at least 1 of gold drop unique to that chest, in many cases several.
    - 1st chest open gave 7 drops.
    - 2nd chest open gave 11 drops.
    - 3rd chest open seems mostly a waste of time (at least when doing the same dungeon b2b). The only drop from the 3rd open was the Topaz.
    - 0 Polymock pieces so I'm thinking that its unaffected by this effect and just a standard low % chance all the time
    - The 2/3 other accounts in the party doing the dungeon got almost fuck all. 1 Chrysocola staff total (They had opened all these chest dozens of times over the years).
    - Some of the time when one of the runners was also a fresh / fresher character (we swapped them in and out) we got some drops. Several staffs and a q10 emerald blade. Didn't keep good notes of these but we definitely noticed the difference.

    Conclusion:
    Even with such a relatively small sample size it really does seem that new characters and or new accounts get much better dungeon chest drops.
    I'm pretty consistent with taking screenshots of good drops, its just a habit but came in handy with this. Went through the folder and this drop frequency is never seen with my older characters or even characters / accounts that are only 12-18 months old but been used ALOT in dungeons.
    Considering I regularly solo / duo dungeons with 6-7 alts its a pretty decent comparison. Shame I don't have exact records but that aside that amount of drops these new accounts got in so few attempts just doesn't happen to me and I'm expecting when I repeat this test again it will show that. Predicting 4th 5th 6th chest opens will yield significantly less drops.

    Thought this was somewhat interesting information, do with it as you like. My advise = If you got some fresh accounts go open dungeon chests a couple times, seems lucrative. At some point I will do other dungeons on these 6 and repeat dungeons again for another 3 opens, see what comes. cba to post them all but here is some of the drops. PS. I definitely got screwed on reqs :(



    Anybody done something like this before with same or differing results?

    IGN: Pyro Loves Lobsters

    • New

    I will tell you something from way back. Then nerfed drop rates cuz of speed clear. People who do whole dung and get more exp get better drops then people who do SC. Try using triple exp scrolls and do normal run and see the drops.🫡

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    The only time i've witnessed a BDS double drop was on a ''solo'' run, running a first time leecher.

    And the irony when i jokingly mentioned the guy he definitely is dropping a BDS, if thats his first completion.. Not a BDS, but two.


    Similar to when i returned to the game after a few yrs quit and Grant West would take me to some BogSC, which i had to relearn like any other, but joined as a monk, completing it after yrs, dropping 2 Q9 Frogs in 2 runs..one after another.. Also, it was never proven or researched to this point, but Lucky Aura also has something to do with drops ;)

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    I think that lucky aura has big impact on item drops. Or I'm just imaginating things.

    • New

    Interesting observation although I have not observed something similar.

    Assuming this is the case, ie chest drops are somehow affected, there are also subsequent questions one could ask:

    1. Is it about a character being new to the specific dungeon?
    2. Is it about an account being new to a dungeon?
    3. Is there a cutoff period, after which "luck" resets? This is because lots of veterans still have lucky strikes with their old characters, I have seen it multiple times.
    • New

    Damir I remember seeing you in an old thread on anti-farming code. Did you ever do any more testing with storybooks for your theory that there's a hidden XP value that dictates when you're more likely to get golds?

    • New
    Quote from Nate
    Quote from Damir

    I will tell you something from way back. Then nerfed drop rates cuz of speed clear. People who do whole dung and get more exp get better drops then people who do SC. Try using triple exp scrolls and do normal run and see the drops.🫡

    Damir I remember seeing you in an old thread on anti-farming code. Did you ever do any more testing with storybooks for your theory that there's a hidden XP value that dictates when you're more likely to get golds?

    Yeah I did, 4 times. And I noticed increase in drop quality, by quality I mean gold item drop, not actually better mods etc. But that was time consuming and need more tests to prove it. But yes I believe that xp is a huge factor. The not "taxed" xp.

    • New

    Interesting, I am currently filling books to cheese my survivor title, so I will have a bit more than 1,337,500 "untaxed XP" as you say. Before and after I turn them in I will do some farming and keep drop notes. I am thinking Gates of Kryta or Raptor farm, since I am doing this on my Warrior and I know how to do those farms already. If this theory is true, then it would seem that speedbooking and turning those books in before doing dungeons would net you better drops from the end chest, right?

    • New
    Quote from Nate

    Interesting, I am currently filling books to cheese my survivor title, so I will have a bit more than 1,337,500 "untaxed XP" as you say. Before and after I turn them in I will do some farming and keep drop notes. I am thinking Gates of Kryta or Raptor farm, since I am doing this on my Warrior and I know how to do those farms already. If this theory is true, then it would seem that speedbooking and turning those books in before doing dungeons would net you better drops from the end chest, right?

    That should be right. Need excessive testing. But I know people are using triple exp scrolls in SoO for years, and they know why they use them. So there is something.

    • New

    I explained for the Zethuka items (here). With new characters and/or a new account, this systematically increased the chance for these items. I had compared this to Nighfall's treasure chest, which can also drop better items, the longer you wait before re-opening them, or also opening them with a new character/account.

    I think the elements that affect this are multiple in the game's source code (only 1 could be manipulated, it's not possible if the factors are multiple and numerous).

    But it's clear to me that the “virgin” + time factor plays a “reset” role, or at least allows for more luck, apart from other multiple factors.

    (I remember a few years ago, every day, over a period of 2-3 weeks, after 5-10 runs in Bogroot, my 3 accounts would drop a Froggy. And in the same order for the drop (account 1, then 2, then 3, etc). Which is a lot of Froggy and contradicts the logic above. But with the luck factor, why not? The only “new” element was an old account donated by an old player, whose new character, who had done nothing in the game and was not killing anyone, was simply opening the chest with group (3 accounts and heros). And I've also noticed it with my low LvL, which prevents any XP gain in the game, with chests on zones. The Terrorweb Dryders in Gate of Pain drop Ghostly staff and Eternal shield q8, but after a while (5-10 runs) this is very very very very rare, especially the Ghostly staff).

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    Neutral_CH Thanks for the info!

    Indeed it makes sense that a reset is in place, either a gradual or a hard one. I think we should also differentiate between drops from mobs, from NM/HM chests, and from dungeon end chests.

    The mechanics of the source code might be similar for all of those, but there could be different scaling factors e.g.

    Damir I admit I had never heard about the xp scrolls thing in SCs/casual dungeons. Do you have any kind of data about it, in the spirit of Pyro's data?

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    Quote from Hesper

    Neutral_CH Thanks for the info!

    Indeed it makes sense that a reset is in place, either a gradual or a hard one. I think we should also differentiate between drops from mobs, from NM/HM chests, and from dungeon end chests.

    The mechanics of the source code might be similar for all of those, but there could be different scaling factors e.g.

    Damir I admit I had never heard about the xp scrolls thing in SCs/casual dungeons. Do you have any kind of data about it, in the spirit of Pyro's data?

    Not really, just info's from people that farmed dungeons for years. And ofc you won't see public some thing. People tend to keep some infos for themselves or share only in certain groups. But if you search for it, I believe you will find something on net. And people who used to bot SoO and bog, used these scrolls in there. And thats for a reason. I suppose exp scrolls are the way to mimick low level character, since they get more exp while leveling so actually game maybe seee them as lower level, who knows, but people believe it works.

    • New

    I experienced the opposite, no xp gain for more interesting drops. Maybe the 2 factors are right (gain or no gain of XP), but a third or more affects them. Not dying and covering X distance or the amount of time spent in the zone/dungeon... it all gets a bit twisted at some point. Especially since, without a real constant, it's easy to see noon at your door.

    PyroLobster could have done exactly the same and still not have half of these drops, without knowing why.