Anet's stance on toolbox

Quote from MaxBorken

the problem with that approach is that eventually there will be a choice for Toolbox if this attitude is adopted - comply or get squashed.

Also for any prospective replacement programs too. It would be less work to blanket-ban all third party programs than to adapt the existing code accordingly.

But I really hope it doesn’t come to that. I’d like to see a middle ground.

I think you underestimate the company cost of a banwave, the amount of code needed to effectively flag all abusers plus the support team to handle all the "I was hacked/It was my brother/I did nothing wrong" spam, and be able to fiilter with legitimate false positives is more than enough to warrant taking the time to change a few lines of code with some QA testing and build iteration

I hope ArenaNet is smarter than to go with the "get squashed" method, if they do that without really looking the games issues, they will kill a good chunk of the games community

Quote from Pleikki

I think good middle ground is that Anet say its wrong, Maybe give Ban or two so ppl know theyre behind their words. And then ppl can keep using the programs at their own risk. The real problem with texmod i see is that ppl think its allowed without official word so its becoming meta and accepted. Then The ppl who didn't care they cheat can keep cheating at own risk And ppl scared of ban wouldnt

The "problem" with texmod and other visual mods is that arenanet will never be able to know you are using it without clientside code detection, which they have not used in GW1 (yet... theyve recently resorted to clientside detection in GW2)

Also a blanket ban of toolbox after so much omission from the last 5-7 years will bring backlash, how is that even a middle ground xD. They have done exactly what you have said in the past mind you, it solves nothing

100.000 bots in the game and let's ban TB users. Yeah that'll fix everything....

Quote from Emma

100.000 bots in the game and let's ban TB users. Yeah that'll fix everything....

you’re right of course, and that’s a separate issue they are looking at. Closely.

I know, but what I'm saying is just plainly banning people for TB would be the stupidest thing Anet has done since gw2 ;). Even just 1 or 2.

edit: Imo doing something about Toolbox should be far on the bottom of Anet's to-do-list or not at all, so many features are not "game breaking" and are a huge benefit to the general gameplay. There are lots of different issues they need to attend to first.

Oh yes. I don’t get the impression it’s at the top of their to do list. Especially as it’s being done on a voluntary basis for now. But it’s precisely because their work is voluntary right now that neither releasing funds for either a re-write of the code nor dealing with ban appeals are likely. At this stage, I’d say something more generic, sweeping and final would be more likely unless an agreement can be reached. Or nothing happens at all.....

Quote from MaxBorken

At this stage, I’d say something more generic, sweeping and final would be more likely unless an agreement can be reached. Or nothing happens at all.....

Better nothing then, imo.

Quote from Pleikki

Well its like on real Life. Politicians And cops cant fix Any real problems or law breakers so they Focus on little things that has Many victims like speeding or going red ligths Works good there, so why not here! To keep normal ppl feel theyre watched out.

Yeah and that's actually fixing things.... My point exactly.

Quote from Pleikki

Yesh but ppl dont feel watched out now. Thats why we need the few bans on Minor things

Not for toolbox.

Quote from Smash

Can't wait to see the backlash after ppl get banned for toolbox with botters still around. Great idea.

This thread is cancer.

you’ve assumed nothing is being done about the botters

So you know when you have to read a post a few times to check you read it right the first few because it strikes a chord with you? Well that just happened to me.

@WFI:

You’re more right than I think you know. If I’m honest, I’m struggling a bit with my stance on this issue, and I find it intriguing that you have noticed. The last two and a half years since guru died and we started Legacy has seen my role change somewhat from just being a collector (albeit an outspoken one) to becoming some sort of ambassador for the community in general. And I’ll be honest - it’s not my natural role. I’m having to grow into it. But I am learning all the time, and I don’t always get it right. I have found myself in this position more through luck than judgement. I have been driving Legacy forward (financially and directionally too) since it started, and it has put me in positions I never imagined i’d find myself. I wanted to be known as a collector, and instead myself and Legacy have become entwined as one. I have established direct lines of communication with the Devs and other people at Anet, as well as other community elders, and by working with Kevin this little site has become more successful than we ever imagined. We are planning things that we never dreamed we might.

But that has meant I have had to change my approach gradually. And yes, I suopose I am trying to be an ambassador for the community, because I believe in it passionately and will do whatever I can to keep it alive. And I find myself in a position to directly influence and drive things forward. So to that end, I do feel I have to listen to both sides of every argument instead of just stubbornly asserting one position as I used to.

The issue around toolbox is unique however. I have never used it, so I don’t know it. But I know that large numbers of our community do. My old-Max head says it’s cheating - and my personal feelings back that up. But my ambassador head recognises that it has a large user base, and those guys are as much a part of our community as anyone else. So where does my opinion decide to go, given that I’m naturally torn? Well I have to be responsible because that is the position I find myself in. To follow my heart and call for Toolbox to be banned would certainly fit with old-Max, but community-Max has to take a whole community view. And I’m struggling a bit as I said.

The interesting part of all this is that Toolbox has filled the void caused by years of no development from Anet. Many of the features of Toolbox would likely have ended up being implemented into the game though evolution. So we find ourselves at a unique crossroads. Anet’s neglect caused Toolbox to be what it is today. And it would be tantamount to burying one’s head in the sand to think otherwise. And yet it doesn’t comply with the EULA. That’s the very definition of irony.

So you’re right. And you have noticed that I struggle with this role. I didn’t expect to still be in this position, but here we are. It’s evolving all the time, and I’ll continue to try and keep up with that.

I certainly don’t want Toolbox to divide the community. I spend all my energy trying to bring it all together somehow. To me, middle ground at this stage feels the right way to be going. But of course, I’m just a guy, same as any of us. And old-Max is having to evolve.

Quote from Jack559

Do you know something we don't know?

I’m just not assuming that Toolbox is their only priority. I would imagine there are other more pressing issues to deal with including botters, gold sellers, account stealing, etc.

Also, I can neither confirm nor deny knowing anything.

I’d just like to add something to my previous post.

While it feels that Legacy and myself have fused together sometimes, my own opinions are not those of Legacy. My opinions are my own, and I don’t solely represent the opinion of the staff team. I’m still just Max, and still just a member of the Legacy team. I’m no more important than any of the others. More vocal perhaps.....