GvG - What Keeps You Away?

  • With the recent interest and generous free time of Stephen, Bill, and Lindsay in Guild Wars - I wanted to encourage a discussion among everyone in regards to GvG.


    The main guide like I'd to follow in this discussion is: What the Devs are capable of changing in their free time.


    With that being said, I am aiming for two types of information from everyone.


    1) What is keeping you away from GvG? This can be ladder and/or ATs/mATs.

    2) What would encourage you to start playing or getting more involved in GvG/ATs/mATs?


    Here is an example:

    1) Champ point syncers keep me away (I find it hilarious this site wants to spell check "syncers" and correct it to "cancers")

    2) If 2-4 heroes would be allowed in GvG


    These ideas can be the same ideas from multiple people - In fact it would show many people agree on the same subject.

  • 1) What is keeping you away from GvG? The lack of real teams playing. Even if we define 'real' as one player with henchmen or heroes(if allowed), The ability of syncers to dodge matches makes the ladder unplayable for those types of players.


    2) What would encourage you to start playing or getting more involved in GvG/ATs/mATs? Skill balance changes(meta needs shifted from time to time), VoD (would require some adjustments), cash tournaments, heroes.



  • The fluxes were intended to provide build diversity without the need to perform skill balances or changes. Perhaps seeing if the devs could modify certain fluxes or perhaps even randomize and rotate in ex-fluxes? I did mention for people to mention things devs could do. I understand the lack of skill balances may make the meta feel stale - but unfortunately that seems to be something only viable if a big enough active player base were to exist.

  • I've never been a fan of fluxes. Perhaps it's because they don't do enough to induce build changes. Sadly, I doubt the active player base will increase without some form of major modification or tournament.


    With that said, are you happy with the lord damage mechanic? Do you think the lord damage mechanic pushes players in a general build direction?

  • For me it would be the synchers too. If Anet could find a way of squashing those cheaters I’d be inclined to give it a try once more.

    "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" - Oscar Wilde

  • With that said, are you happy with the lord damage mechanic? Do you think the lord damage mechanic pushes players in a general build direction?

    From what I recall, there were many MANY discussions on how to make VoD work. The problem came down to the fact that [iQ]'s strategy against [EvIL] promoted the type of play that encouraged defensive games that ultimately turned the game into a PvE fest by healing and nuking creeps at 30 minutes.


    You saw different strategies to reach that goal - [Me] going split illusion mesmers and camping archer's with ineptitude and clumsiness and just letting them kill themselves even to the point of camping the lord with the illusion mesmers and just spamming ineptitude damage.


    I still don't know if a solution could have been reached without severely limiting team's ability to play defensively. Is the lord damage mechanic perfect? No, it isn't. But I would take it over what VoD evolved into any day. (And I sure as hell would take it over what GW2 competitive PvP matches are)


    If there was some way to monitor and ban players who abused the defensive strategy of healing and doing nothing until VoD, VoD was a great concept. The health decrease, the NPCs duking it out, Guild Lords waiting a few minutes to follow suite, the ability to be losing a match but pull off a Guild Lord gank to manage a win. All amazing concepts and strategies. I miss it. To bring that back and hope people play honorably is just not going to happen unfortunately. People have the chance to play fun builds and honorable builds, but you'll never be able to fully get rid of those who will die hard trying to win no matter how small the gain is.

  • For me it would be the synchers too. If Anet could find a way of squashing those cheaters I’d be inclined to give it a try once more.

    if you realy want to try it you can play ATs (there are 3 ATs each day) , imo ladder is mostly dead because of the lack of players( so is ATs) ,doesnt rly matter if like during an hour in the whole day the syncers are in.

    Edited once, last by keaz ().

  • From what I recall, there were many MANY discussions on how to make VoD work. The problem came down to the fact that [iQ]'s strategy against [EvIL] promoted the type of play that encouraged defensive games that ultimately turned the game into a PvE fest by healing and nuking creeps at 30 minutes.


    I'd be interested in what the other options were. If I remember correctly, they gave us "Victory is Ours!", which still encourages this passive gameplay. There needed to be an incentive to playing proactively. To me, playing defensively for a portion of the game is fine, it's when you can ball and nuke the NPCs that we have a real issue on our hands.

    I still don't know if a solution could have been reached without severely limiting team's ability to play defensively. Is the lord damage mechanic perfect? No, it isn't. But I would take it over what VoD evolved into any day. (And I sure as hell would take it over what GW2 competitive PvP matches are)


    I'd start by testing a mechanic that allows AoE damage reduction for NPCs. How it exactly works could be tweaked to favor proactive play. An example might be: NPCs receive "X%" AoE damage reduction based on number of NPCs remaining at VoD and team morale. This would be my starting point and I'd move from there to attempt a fix.


    On the other side of it, Could how NPCs scatter in EoTN be used to keep the NPCs from just blowing up to nukes?

    If there was some way to monitor and ban players who abused the defensive strategy of healing and doing nothing until VoD, VoD was a great concept. The health decrease, the NPCs duking it out, Guild Lords waiting a few minutes to follow suite, the ability to be losing a match but pull off a Guild Lord gank to manage a win. All amazing concepts and strategies. I miss it. To bring that back and hope people play honorably is just not going to happen unfortunately. People have the chance to play fun builds and honorable builds, but you'll never be able to fully get rid of those who will die hard trying to win no matter how small the gain is.

    VoD felt like something BIG was happening in the game and now it's just really lackluster. I'd love to be able to explore possible fixes for VoD. I'd be cool if we could get some traction and really discuss this topic with someone like Izzy(even though he's moved on to GW2).

  • I always liked PVP, but I guess what always kept me away from GvG is how people behave : everybody is way too serious, flame, QQ, etc. You can't go on a casual run like in RA.
    GvG is also a small community : everyone knows each other. I ended up in some people's black list because I played with botters (without knowing xD)

    I don't think any update will change that :p

  • I'm like Vizi


    I prefer PvP over PvE but never really did GvG, only RA/HB and sometimes HA. Now it kinda feels out of reach because of inactivity from normal players and over activity of syncers.

    I think something that might help is adding incentives to play GvG, even with hench, while also discouraging syncing.


    Though tbh I have no idea how one would do this

  • As a casual PvE player, I might pitch in a reason why I never really got into PvP. Vizu and Breeze are right on point, it's way too serious.


    It's very tough on casual players, which means mostly the elitists stay around killing other elitists. And when they drop out, there won't be much players left. As soon as casual players drop by they will be utterly destroyed.


    Edit: Constructive critisism. So what could be done about it? I really don't know. Maybe some more casual PvP areas that the elitists are not interested in, a place where casuals get to fight casuals? Similar to arenas with a max level, there could be some lvl 20 arenas with a limit on Champion/Gladiator titles?
    As I never got into PvP seriously, I can't say if that would even work.

    Edited 2 times, last by Lexx ().

  • Yeah and the thing is now casual PvP is kinda dead too.


    RA is mostly full of syncers, HB is ???, the only thing kind of alive is pug HA during zquest/double week


    I'd love it if they could in a weird way make GvG pug-able

  • For me personally I just need a way to ease into it. I'm used to the occasional rage and shouting (although it can be really discouraging at times). Some GvG teaching is all I want. The reward for me would be to take part on high level in one of the best pvp games ever.


    I am of the opinion that if you start start a GvG team with friends right now you will be absolutely stomped. Ladder used to get you to play with people of your own skill level but I understand there simply aren't enough players for that now.


    It seems to me that what's necessary is a bigger player base. Things like this thread is a start of getting more people interested. It certainly sparks my attention.


    Perhaps we could start a gofundme for a community funded GvG tournament?

  • I'd love it if they could in a weird way make GvG pug-able

    Any alliance with players could pull this off with a little coordination. If you didn't want to use the guilds you're in, you could make a pug guild with alts to play in from time to time.

    For me personally I just need a way to ease into it. I'm used to the occasional rage and shouting (although it can be really discouraging at times). Some GvG teaching is all I want. The reward for me would be to take part on high level in one of the best pvp games ever.

    Hopefully at this point in the game someone would be willing to teach new players. I remember a training guild back in the day called team love. perhaps someone could start something similar up?


    I am of the opinion that if you start start a GvG team with friends right now you will be absolutely stomped. Ladder used to get you to play with people of your own skill level but I understand there simply aren't enough players for that now.

    I agree. Ladder play needs to be adjusted as it could help ease newer players into GvG.

    It seems to me that what's necessary is a bigger player base. Things like this thread is a start of getting more people interested. It certainly sparks my attention.


    Perhaps we could start a gofundme for a community funded GvG tournament?

    Interesting. The question I'd have is how much money would it require to host a season/tournament?

  • Any alliance with players could pull this off with a little coordination. If you didn't want to use the guilds you're in, you could make a pug guild with alts to play in from time to time.

    I know but it might help with the population issue GvG has a bit

  • never got into pvp and the few times I did some of it (outside of fa and jq) such names were called at me that I left and have never looked back. Sorry I dont have the fastest computer out there and am not god's gift to computer games---but the attitude of those that play is not only elitest but also rather immature---not everyone spends every spare moment playing video games. One would think that with a game now well over 10 years old that most of the player base would be adults (or at least college age), so no reason for the immaturity that I have seen.

    :mouse:where is the 'all you can eat' cookie bar? :cookie:

  • What about the way such as HA. Just a type of AT reorganization.

    The top map (like hall of heroes) with a good chest, every 30 mins for example.
    Top map 8vs8 so it will be a fair matches.

    But no 3h holding for cap like in HA, just make 1/16-1/8-1/4-1/2-final.
    Win in a final match = 1 champ pt (1 or 2 can be a daily cap).

    It will be too hard for sync, if many real teams will be in.

    But you need to have a new 16 teams every 30 min, so it should be a hench teams, when not enought teams to join.

  • From what I recall, there were many MANY discussions on how to make VoD work. The problem came down to the fact that [iQ]'s strategy against [EvIL] promoted the type of play that encouraged defensive games that ultimately turned the game into a PvE fest by healing and nuking creeps at 30 minutes.


    The health decrease, the NPCs duking it out, Guild Lords waiting a few minutes to follow suite, the ability to be losing a match but pull off a Guild Lord gank to manage a win. All amazing concepts and strategies. I miss it. To bring that back and hope people play honorably is just not going to happen unfortunately. People have the chance to play fun builds and honorable builds, but you'll never be able to fully get rid of those who will die hard trying to win no matter how small the gain is.


    The solution to this problem consists of not executing the very last part of VoD script, that is, the movement of Guild Lord to the center of the map. :) I'd be happy to see VoD feature re-introduced back personally, but only if the mentioned adjustment is going to be taken into account.


    There's also no necessity to be doing anything about how victory condition through the amount of dealt Guild Lord damage is currently defined.