Speed Clear and pcon shortage discussion

    Quote from Arcana Force

    i just took an example from reddit posts with futures or fixes that ppl were asking, you can put any other kind of future you want instead of the weapon mod npc, why pcons is more important than pvp ? let's fix pvp instead.

    Pcons aren't more important than pvp. But fixing pcons and therefore a big part of the economy doesn't take deeper thought or a lot of effort to implement. We're talking about half an hour here, at the very most, including "quality testing". Raw effort of implementing a vendor selling a bunch of items for 100g each? If you choose an existing one, less than 10 minutes.

    In all honesty, I don't get why people are so negative about this. It is an issue, you can't deny it. It takes barely any effort to fix and tackles multiple problems at once. Okay, it's not needed for you, got it, you don't use pcons. Pcon vendors or other solutions will not hurt you. They would increase the game play experience for many and hurt no one except for botters. If anything, I'm sure you'd appreciate how much less traffic and irrelevant trades would be going on in kamadan.

    Quote from Joker

    coming from the guy that was very recently offering 4e for a gate of desolation mission run. something doesnt compute here

    if i want to waste money for someone to pass a mission that i just despise it’s my business , beside i ended up running the damn thing myself beside the first mission.

    What does paying someone for a run of eotn/droknar/or nightfall have to do with consumable and pcons?

    if you dont see the hypocrisy in calling out people for not wanting to manually pop pcons every 10 minutes and making a post on a forum to have someone run a ~15 minute mission for you theres nothing i can do for you my guy

    IGN: Joker Hates Trading

    Feel free to message me ingame :)

    Aha i am one of them, i used pcons everytime i do pve, quest, mission, solo farm, sc.

    Reason : -> it save time, even 10sec/run ill take it. <-- Reason : Im not a teenager anymore, i dont have xx hours to spend on this game as i had in the path. But i still love it (solo farming, chest running, scs, if i die and lose 5mins because i had 550hp instead of 750+speed bonus, im really annoyed)

    I think people got addicted to pcons because the whole game feels like a waste of life time and you are rarely rewarded for your time invested.

    Also this game is EXTREMLY SLOW (my opinion), how the character runs, how the whole environement makes u feel like a little mouse and the fact that heroes are 1 IQ and makes the quest and missions really boring (cause all outpost empty)

    Pcons are my vitamins (specially cupcakes and pumpkin pies), i even use sweets pts in outpost cause i want to save 25% or 50% of this useless time of running

    Nowaday i try to not abuse pcons. I only use what is really needed and i abused it in the path cause there was illimited ammount of pcons thanks to bot

    I think the day pcons will disappear, ill stop all solo farm, ill only keep chest running.

    I know i am the really bad example of pcons user, but im not sure we can blame people with 10k hours for trying to speed up their days in this really slow game. I wish i could spend all my days trying hard at farming few plats in HOURS of gameplay like 10 years ago but i dont have this time and motivations anymore

    IGN : Alchimist Derv

    Quote from dubbleclick

    Raw effort of implementing a vendor selling a bunch of items for 100g each? If you choose an existing one, less than 10 minutes.

    Pcon vendors or other solutions will not hurt you. They would increase the game play experience for many and hurt no one except for botters.

    So, a pcon vendor will not hurt players who do not sc and DO actually farm pcons without bots. Yes, making all their pcons worth a flat 100g rate doesn't change their income potential.

    ꚛꚙꚛ Ouch My Assassin | Raise R Bladez ꚛꚙꚛ

    Quote from Looney

    So, a pcon vendor will not hurt players who do not sc and DO actually farm pcons without bots. Yes, making all their pcons worth a flat 100g rate doesn't change their income potential.

    I think price should be so high that it would be still worth it to farm pcons, but if shortage was huge it would be better buy from vendor than be without. Someting liek 1000g each.


    But yeah i think everyone has own things theyd like fixed and if i were guy to say id fix the skills and ruin current metas, maybe ppl would make new builds that wouldnt require pcons then and would fix that ;)


    And comparing lazyness of getting run and cheating with 3rd party programs is just stupid..

    i agree i think its fairly stupid. someone that doesnt even want to play the game is way worse than someone who wants to play but doesnt want to do arbitrary doubleclick on pcons every couple minutes (:

    IGN: Joker Hates Trading

    Feel free to message me ingame :)

    Quote from Alchimist

    Someone that doesnt even want to play the game ? Who is it, you mean people that use runners ? or botters

    But ANet took der bawts... for one event... and its the end of the world.

    Seriously ppl, you love a playstyle that you admit depended on mass botting of pcons, which botting is against the EULA and ToS, and, you are surprised it maybe isn't a reliable source?

    ꚛꚙꚛ Ouch My Assassin | Raise R Bladez ꚛꚙꚛ

    Quote from Pleikki

    I think price should be so high that it would be still worth it to farm pcons, but if shortage was huge it would be better buy from vendor than be without. Someting liek 1000g each.

    Are you crazy? How the fuck are you supposed to make up for the amount of pcons you use, at 1k each that's 8k each run + ~15k lunars. You make an average of what, 6k per successful run? Lunars should be at 10g each, the rest would be fine at 100g each. Make rock candies a little more expensive if you so will but what does that even matter. It's not like the game needs more money sinks.

    SPECIAL Events, SPECIAL Drops,

    yet you want them 100% of the time.


    Oh, yeah...ur 'special' too.

    If they intended on ppl having that many +1 to all attributes 100% of the time they probably would've just given us more attribute points by now.

    ~15 yrs old, maintenance mode, automated, nearly zero devs left.

    And as far as i can tell that last update removing the physical address field only accomplishes making accounts easier to sell.

    ꚛꚙꚛ Ouch My Assassin | Raise R Bladez ꚛꚙꚛ

    Quote from Looney

    So, a pcon vendor will not hurt players who do not sc and DO actually farm pcons without bots. Yes, making all their pcons worth a flat 100g rate doesn't change their income potential.

    And those players farm what, a maximum of 20e an event, at most? With time that they could have spent doing other content making a lot more money.

    Quote from Looney

    SPECIAL Events, SPECIAL Drops,

    yet you want them 100% of the time.

    Yeah, because that has literally never been a problem until now. And it's now a problem because you can't compete with records using them, if you can't have them. They're still available, so there can't be a meta reset. What's even the point in competing anymore?

    Honestly, if you can't see why we need a pcon vendor or different solution to this issue, you either have no grasp of the reality of this game, are an "omg pcons cheating" whiteknight, or just want to piss off people. It doesn't hurt you or anyone else if there was a solution to this issue. Saying people can make a little bit of profit off of farming them manually is stupid.

    Quote from dubbleclick

    And those players farm what, a maximum of 20e an event, at most? With time that they could have spent doing other content making a lot more money.

    Yep, and if they do... guess what goes missing. That 'special' thing from the 'special' event, that was intended as a 'special' bonus for participating in said event.

    You make more money doing other things, but, maybe taking a break to get the things you need to make more money.

    Again. Special bonus. But you don't do the event to get it, like many, many ppl.

    But, You want it 100% of the time for NON PARTISIPATION.

    ꚛꚙꚛ Ouch My Assassin | Raise R Bladez ꚛꚙꚛ

    By the way, another solution, despite requiring a little more effort, would be to simply make everlasting versions of pcons and sell those in the Gem store. Yes, it's pay to win, but if I can pay 20€ once to save myself hours and hours and hours of kamadan and worry? Hell yes.

    Quote from Looney

    Yep, and if they do... guess what goes missing. That 'special' thing from the 'special' event, that was intended as a 'special' bonus for participating in said event.

    You make more money doing other things, but, maybe taking a break to get the things you need to make more money.

    Again. Special bonus. But you don't do the event to get it, like many, many ppl.

    But, You want it 100% of the time for NON PARTISIPATION.

    Boy, you should've read the last pages. You'd need to farm the event 24/7 during active hours with 20 accounts at once to stock up enough to last YOURSELF for a year. And where do you take "But you don't do the event to get it" from? I've spent the entire fucking week farming this shit during my evenings and all I've made was gone after 3 evenings of runs.

    Casuals, by the way, it wouldn't have lasted a single record push evening.

    Quote from dubbleclick

    Boy, you should've read the last pages. You'd need to farm the event 24/7 during active hours with 20 accounts at once to stock up enough to last YOURSELF for a year. And where do you take "But you don't do the event to get it" from? I've spent the entire fucking week farming this shit during my evenings and all I've made was gone after 3 evenings of runs.

    I've read it. Just you value the SC community ONLY. Every "solution" is basically near zero value pcons which hurts anyone who farms them. Not everyone bots, yes, bots were the main source, but, zero value pcons is not a "solution" that DOESN'T hurt another portion of the playerbase.

    Btw, i could farm a lot more pcons during events. I just don't. Anti farm code has reduced my gold item drops to the point i don't bother to farm as much, chestrunning provides more unids/hr.

    ꚛꚙꚛ Ouch My Assassin | Raise R Bladez ꚛꚙꚛ

    So your by logic let's have 1000 players be unable to play the content they enjoy - or pay insane amounts of money that they can't even generate - to shield the 100 innocent people who make a tiny bit amount of money because they'd rather farm events than do content that gives then 10x more money? Seriously?

    You seriously think it's better than people have to pay like 300 arms a year to even afford basic pcons while RELYING ON BOTS is better than a couple players losing what, 20e per event??? Or do you think bots should stay banned and the entire sc scene should just die? Apparently so.

    Quote from Alchimist

    Aha i am one of them, i used pcons everytime i do pve, quest, mission, solo farm, sc.

    Reason : -> it save time, even 10sec/run ill take it. <-- Reason : Im not a teenager anymore, i dont have xx hours to spend on this game as i had in the path. [...]

    This post is gold. Have to agree with most of it.

    The thing i find annoying is this; I am a person that has earned a lot of money (mainly from pvp), i also spend a lot of money in my characters, all have to be said. But still i don't see myself spaming consets like chewing gums, i mean i couldn't stop playing pvp and start doing Soocsc, Uwsc, Boogsc etc.. in the evenings and find a way to sustain the waste of money in pcons and consets and at the same time keep getting stuff for my chars. So i find that pretty much gamebreaking.

    So at the end what's the point? Having a bot that farms all those consumables to play comfortable or just avoid doing scs and trying to get some good drops? and just keep playing pvp and buying the stuff you want with that money? even if you kinda like scs. The only protifable sc i've seen so far is doasc, and still there aren't groups farming all day, some are slow, and its repetitive af.

    PD: can't even imagine what a casual player would think about investing money in consumables Kappa xD

    Quote from dubbleclick

    So your by logic let's have 1000 players be unable to play the content they enjoy - or pay insane amounts of money that they can't even generate - to shield the 100 innocent people who make a tiny bit amount of money because they'd rather farm events than do content that gives then 10x more money? Seriously?

    You seriously think it's better than people have to pay like 300 arms a year to even afford basic pcons while RELYING ON BOTS is better than a couple players losing what, 20e per event??? Or do you think bots should stay banned and the entire sc scene should just die? Apparently so.

    Seriously? 1000vs 100?

    62% of all statistics are random numbers someone pulled out of thin air.

    And yes bots should stay banned.

    ꚛꚙꚛ Ouch My Assassin | Raise R Bladez ꚛꚙꚛ

    That's obviously not a real statistic, but there are a lot of people in the SC scene - and apparently none who farm events manually to sell stuff. I mean i've been in kamadan throughout the event and couldn't really find anyone selling more than 100 tokens. All who were there were people who botted. Not like there were many of those.

    That being said, this is pointless. You think it's better to shoot 10% of your country because you don't want another 10% to lose their ability to play slave instead of actually earning money.

    Quote from Izzy

    This post is gold. Have to agree with most of it.

    The thing i find annoying is this; I am a person that has earned a lot of money (mainly from pvp), i also spend a lot of money in my characters, all have to be said. But still i don't see myself spaming consets like chewing gums, i mean i couldn't stop playing pvp and start doing Soocsc, Uwsc, Boogsc etc.. in the evenings and find a way to sustain the waste of money in pcons and consets and at the same time keep getting stuff for my chars. So i find that pretty much gamebreaking.

    So at the end what's the point? Having a bot that farms all those consumables to play comfortable or just avoid doing scs and trying to get some good drops? and just keep playing pvp and buying the stuff you want with that money? even if you kinda like scs. The only protifable sc i've seen so far is doasc, and still there aren't groups farming all day, some are slow, and its repetitive af.

    PD: can't even imagine what a casual player would think about investing money in consumables Kappa xD

    whats the point? where do you think 99% of high end skins that are also bought and used by "casuals" come from? hint: its scs. not pvp. except maybe some zchest stuff that is, u guessed it, almost exclusively botted

    IGN: Joker Hates Trading

    Feel free to message me ingame :)

    Quote from Joker

    whats the point? where do you think 99% of high end skins that are also bought and used by "casuals" come from? hint: its scs. not pvp. except maybe some zchest stuff that is, u guessed it, almost exclusively botted

    What are those high end skins you get from SC?

    Eternal Blade, VS , OBBy edge, bds , froggy, emerald blade, eaglecrest , cc, mini dhuum & scythe, silverwing & dryad ?

    Then there are envoy weapons which don't come from sc, crystalline & ghero from HA, VS & cc from Zchest

    The Uninscr such as 2020 bo's, zodiacs and the like which don't come from SC

    The green minis from WiK

    As far as I can tell thats nowhere near 99%

    Stop pulling statistics out of your ass please.

    Thanks

    Are you seriously listing the zaishen chest as a weapon source? Yes, it can drop pretty much any weapon - but I can guarantee you that the overwhelming majority of weapons (invluding crystalline, VS & cc's) do NOT come from the zaishen chest but from speedclears. Zodiac weapons too, by the way.

    The only rare weapon skins that do not mainly come from speedclears are oldschool items like bo staves. And 99.99% of those are botted.

    But seriously, what's the point. This is in no way a valid argument against us needing different means to secure the access to (p)cons. Botting can't be a long term solution, especially not if they ever fuck us over again like with Lunars.

    thanks for making my argument, i guess?

    yes indeed all of those skins i would argue are from scs to a very big extent (dont pin me on the 99% we both know i was just making up a big number, even if its only 80% thats still a lot less of those in circulation. add wingcrest maul, demoncrest spear, storm daggers, clockwork scythe... list could go on you get the point. envoy weapons can count for both, if you think scers completing many bounties on multiple characters doesnt contribute a big amount of zcoins... well youre just about as delusional as your post sounded tbh.

    on to uninsc, fair enough. actually bought quite a lot of os items from scers myself, so i wouldnt put any bet on how many come from casuals, chestrunners and sc. the biggest portion probably goes to botting anyways, so if you dont want botting in thegame (which is a definitely a point, it would be better to not have bots around) those items are exclusively rare special drops that can come from anywhere. i wont even go into WiK those are too fringe to consider.

    so tell me again how that doesnt make SCs a HUGE source for many of the most popular skins, please do. dont expect to answer again tho because if you do anything like last time youre making my point for me.

    IGN: Joker Hates Trading

    Feel free to message me ingame :)

    I think you really need to chill out other than calling people delusional over the internet.

    I'm quoting you on yur 99% BS stats just like everyone pulling numbers out of their asses.

    80% is still too much


    Think again.

    I won't argue with you anymore since your logic is biased so keep spiting out your venom right in the nether

    Thanks

    My 2 cents, been around off and on since ‘07. Since pcons were released, they have been readily and easily available. In Kama in 2011, you wouldn’t need to spend more than about 2 minutes just watching trade chat to buy as many pcons as you wanted. Maybe ANET did not intend for pcons to be accessible anywhere anytime, but that has been the reality for pretty much the entirety of their existence. If they wanted to change that because they were intended to be “special” as someone said, they would have done that a long time ago. It makes no sense for them to make that stand now.

    Everyone plays this game differently, I have one char where I intentionally only buy things with money that I get from drops to try and simulate an OS experience without the benefit of money I’ve made over like 12 years. On my main char with my most max titles, yeah I used cons on HM missions and vanquishes. On the other character I mentioned, when I start doing vanquishes again I honestly might use pcons again. Someone made a really good point that a lot of us just don’t have the time that we once did, and pcons can help with that. Pcons are not solely a SC item.

    I guess the main things I want to emphasize:


    There is no right or wrong way to play, SC or regular, pcon or no pcon. These are all elements in the game.

    If ANET did not want pcons to be used year round, they would have done something when the game was popular and they were actively managing it.

    I understand the banning of bots, gold sellers have no place here and I am glad ANET did this. At the same time, we are not being honest with ourselves if we cannot acknowledge that bots filled a void once filled with thousands of real people in Kamadan.

    I think the best solution is a merchant/trader/collector. I am not active enough to speak to pricing, but I think slightly above current market rates would make sense as they will be much more easily accessible.

    This is a small community, at the end of the day we all just want to play and enjoy the game, let’s not forget that.

    Ign: Signorio Milsror

    Buying OS shields with +21, +31, +41, or +51 health, just shoot me a message!

    I agree, slightly above current (well, before bots botswere banned) minimum prices is okay for most pcons. Consets, lunars and especially rock candy need to go back to the prices they used to be sold at, however. 5e/stack lunars is reasonable, as well as ~5k/rainbow rock (2.5k, 1.5k, 0.5k). That would about reflect the price they used to be back in the days.