Should we allow UNID packages for sale?

Quote from ardunain

Unid packages seem to be quite popular and not only 1 persons sells it. It’s good that you brought this option to check Unids, more people will be educated. But in terms of allowing or not I don’t see this as being a problem and if people wanna gamble this way then why not.

Edit. I am also sure that most of players don’t check unids and when you buy them like 7 you have chances to get something nice still.

all weapons maybe not, shields, it's easy to keep the +30 +45 for you and only sell imperfect one

Crayon

I was unaware of this so thank you for the info

Agree with above, I check pretty much every shield drop before iding just out of amusement - and I don’t sell unids as I am working on r7 wisdom. If you have a stance on your bar then you can check all the hp mods except hex without even breaking step while playing. Shields require much less effort than other things to determine value, interesting +10/-2 combinations aside.

Foci similar but less so as HP mods don’t determine value in the same way. Weapon inherents probably aren’t interesting enough to test. Wands and staves must be a nightmare to check. To me it feels like it’s best to just avoid shield packages.

Good thread. Always running into people who didn't realise this was a thing

Well. As i saw this thread, and looked into it, and did read the content i want to say thank you for creating it. I did not know you can check unid shields like that.

Another thing that is in mind. I am a fair player, honestly. I do work for every thing i get/got in the game. I did just start to collect unid R9 only weapons/shields/staffs for example a few week ago. And i can say, its not that easy to get them, because the time i play the game is always different. I have a real life, thats the Number 1 i need to focus, and because i work as a lumberjack i come to chill and enjoy the game, and get the most out of it what i can, based on my goals. I am interested on checking my shields with enchantment and stance skills, but honestly that would not be to fair if i would want to sell them as unids. Other thing, i am not a lucky player thats why i decided to collect them, and sell them as unids as they are, so other players may have a better luck with the items. If someone creates a thread like: Wts Unid stuff or something like that, he/she would be nice to also mention in the thread i did check the shield/item or not. Well yes, i know, why i should trust that player? hmm good question. But not all players are shitheads. So in my opinion, If you create a thread for Os unid items, and write they are not checked for the mods with what you did mention or they are checked the buyer can trust it. If the buyer for sure doesnt gets the stuff what the seller did say and has a proof then your WORD of being a honest/fair player is gone, and other players wont rly buy anything from you. Sorry for my bad english, but i hope you guys understand what i did want to say.

For last word: Who want to buy unid Os stuff/Wts os unid stuff, they will buy and sell it. What i see here is a question of trusting others.

Hmmm, well yeah, the house always wins in this logic line, but since is like a gamble, and you buy from a fair player there is a small chance you do a really good profit. Well everything depends.

There's absolutely no way to know if they have been checked or not. So if these unid-package sellers are checking their shields, the chances of them getting caught scamming people (let's face it, it is without a doubt a scam if you sell shields that you've checked the stats on) are ZERO. They just have to say "no, I haven't checked them" and there's nothing else you can do.

And since GOOD dual modded max shields are so rare, it's not hard for the seller to say "better luck next time" when you've bought 5 packages without a single good shield. There's literally NOTHING you can do to stop getting scammed this way.

I occasionally buy unid-packages just for fun when they're not batshit expensive, but I do it fully aware of that I can get scammed and that I'll never even find out if I did get scammed or not.

I wouldn't mind if the mods banned the sales of unid-shields, but I do not know how they see at the matter. To be fair, the forum is potentially being used to scam other GW players.

For me, the LEAST mods could do is to put a sticky like the tyrian serpent axe sticky they've got, so people can themselves decide if they wanna take the risk or not.

Agree with Ravenshaw, I think that is the most sensible move. Awareness is the key thing. I don’t really think an outright ban is necessary.

Whilst the op has shown that the dmg reduction mods can be checked I don’t think it’s practical to check large numbers of shields like that. A +10 demon / -2 ench could still fall out of an unid set as a result. Edit: Also a dmg reduction mod with no hp mod is not a good indicator of value. You have all single mods, +1 (19%) and all +9 vs x mods to contend with, which have essentially no value, then all the +1 (20%) and +10 mods (and -20% condi duration) which vary wildly from almost worthless to very big money.

I guess it’s a lot more like the lottery if you assume hp mods have been checked; the price per ‘ticket’ should be very very low, and the chances of winning very very low as well, but still with a rare chance to set your gw account up for life. Imagine a Magmas +10 vs fire/+1 Fire magic (20%)!

Agreed. But looking at the market, the best selling (by far) shields are the +30/+45 hp ones. The last q9t +45 demon shield sold for 200 arms? I believe it was a bladed one. Correct me if I’m wrong.

That’s more than enough arms to be a big problem that needs to be addressed.

The worst part about this imo is the fact that in conventional scams, you realise that you’ve been scammed after the fact, but in this case, you will never be able to tell if the scammer doesn’t confess. And how often will that happen?

The preference between hp and dmg reduction seems to flip back and forth from what I have observed on demon shields, but generally yes the big money is in perfect hp mods with low req.

In a sense what you’ve said is in agreement with my statement on the value of these shield packages. The fact that a significant proportion of the most valuable shields I.e. the perfect or almost perfect dual mod hp ones are likely to have been removed should lower the average value significantly, to factor in the much lower chance of winning big. This is the best thing about this awareness topic, it should increase skepticism and therefore reduce the amount people are willing to gamble, thereby making these biased packages more likely to sell at a value closer to their actual worth!

Just to be clear I think this is a good topic and it’s right that there seems to be a growing consensus that something should be done, about shields at the very least.

Quite enjoying this conversation!

I bought a couple of Magma Shields a month or so ago. They were R10 Un Id'ed inscribes so the 8e I paid for each wasnt a big deal.

Glad to know I can figure out what they are in regards to stanced or enchanted in the future.

Shields are one thing, but wands/foci/staves might present a more complex question.

Maybe one for the eminent statisticians among us - given someone calculated the disgusting probability of a 20/20 wand/focus - should we really have any fear from unid sets of these? Just testing these would be a spectacular pain. Thinking of the jade wand set that was posted recently, anyone buying that should naturally be aware of the unlikelihood of anything in that set being valuable, no? That feels like a more authentic lottery.

Staves feel somewhere in between this and shields. Arguably singular profession staves can be tested for 20/19 and 20/20 within 20 spell casts, but this is still a bit laborious to test. And once all 5 caster professions get in the mix the question gets more complicated - mixed mods from the same profession have some value e.g comm/channeling. And the difference in value between 20/19 and 20/20 is enormous.

This feels like an awareness thing again - but not in the ‘house always wins’ way that the shield issue presents. So arguably a public service announcement (I’m aware of the irony that I’m posting about this) isn’t actually necessary, and this is more of a game knowledge thing.

Ignorance is not an excuse!

This game can't really be pulling in 'new' players anymore, and anyone worth their salt should know the tricks on the trade when it comes to trade in GW.

Quote from Malice Black

Ignorance is not an excuse!

This game can't really be pulling in 'new' players anymore, and anyone worth their salt should know the tricks on the trade when it comes to trade in GW.

Sorry but what?

This isn't a "goldmaking" discussion where you can share "tips" and "tricks".

This is about a potential scam that we cannot prove.

If you wanna sugarcoat ugly scams as "tricks of the trade" that's on you but I want it to be clear that it absolutely is a scam.

Cherrypicking shields with mods that can potentially be holy grails and excluding them from package sales is scamming.

I’m inclined to agree with you malice - but I think the shield thing is more aligned with the Tyrian serpent issue given the ease of testing. That is another thing that can be deemed as an ignorance related issue.

Perhaps the moral balance of an almost 16 y/o game is irrelevant, but I’m having fun!

Quote from Ravenshaw

Sorry but what?

This isn't a "goldmaking" discussion where you can share "tips" and "tricks".

This is about a potential scam that we cannot prove.

If you wanna sugarcoat ugly scams as "tricks of the trade" that's on you but I want it to be clear that it absolutely is a scam.

Cherrypicking shields with mods that can potentially be holy grails and excluding them from package sales is scamming.

You're far too liberal with the word scam when you admitted yourself you have no proof that there is a scam happening.

Quote from Malice Black

You're far too liberal with the word scam when you admitted yourself you have no proof that there is a scam happening.

Reading comprehension isn't your best side I see. I clearly said potential scam. And since there is no way to prove that it is a scam, we are discussing precautions that could be taken to at least let the buyer be informed that they're POTENTIALLY buying items that have been tested and they aren't as "un-id" as they thought they were.

Why?

It's down to the individual to do their homework on what they're buying. It's not the forums job to coddle anyone.

Quote from Malice Black

Why?

Why not?

Why does trade mods exist then?

They've clearly put boundaries up earlier when the potential to scam is high.

The tyriant serpent axe is a great example. You cannot know if you've bought the advertised item until you equip it, and that's too late.

The whole concept behind "un-id" stuff is that the mods on the items haven't been identified yet, and that the seller is selling the gamble to someone else for a more stable income rather than the rare holy grail drop.

Testing the shields and then excluding shields that give +30/45 hp from the package sales kills the whole concept. You're actively excluding shields that might actually be worth something. And as crayon showed, you can even go one step further to test the -2 w/e or stance mods aswell.

I've said it before and I'll say it again;

the potential to scam players this way is too high to not be on a sticky or outright banned from the forum.

I think all the above are valid points. Playing poker and having everything above a full house effectively removed from the game, without your knowledge, is problematic.

On the other hand I do think reading up on the subject is a good move regardless.

I think having a sticky thread on the fact that unid items can be tested is a good compromise without needing the minutiae of the odds bias. People who fail to read do so at their own risk.

Why do I feel like a Liberal Democrat (uk)...

Quote from Crayon

So your logic is that we shouldn't help/educate other players because it's their own fault if they don't know about these things? 100% Flawless. You seem like a lovely person.

Assuming you aren't a brand new account created to troll, I'm not sure OS is for you Sky.

Absolutely! The game is too old to be coodling anyone.

As for being new, maybe here, but once upon a time I was an epic mod over on GWguru (trade mod among others). cosyfiep - I'm making myself at home already

Quote from Malice Black

Absolutely! The game is too old to be coodling anyone.

For every player who actually thinks like this, theres one that wants to help others.

That’s why this forum, and every GW forum/wiki exists.

And to be fair, it’s not too obvious to know that un-id items actually have their bonuses already rolled, just that the text isn’t revealed without using an identification kit to “ID” them.

It would be a heroic revival of the malice black name. I shall reserve judgement (Also aware of my gw legacy noob status).

I lean on the side of not obfuscating knowledge. I don’t see how a sticky post would harm anyone; perhaps someone should just update the wiki and post a link to it. I’m trying to think of a slippery slope argument as a counter but nothing is coming to me.

Help people by letting them make mistakes. Best learning tool in the world is a mistake that isn't made a second time.

Quote from Malice Black

Help people by letting them make mistakes. Best learning tool in the world is a mistake that isn't made a second time.

Man, walk on this land mine, you will do better next time !

Land mine?!

I'm dynamite.

It doesn't show in my winning personality?

Winning ?

by those last posts that's not the adjective I would use

Winning requires climbing over the small people occasionally.

I am winning ofc Tong. I was super mod on Gwuru UwU. and now respect my authoritah

aaahm Ups i forgot to change accounts.

there are 3 important things this thread shows that -You CAN NOT do:

1. Argue in a normal manner with a troll

2. Troll a Troll

3. Be sure if ur unident shields have been checked before

i hope this thread is now blown up and the troll got fed enough so we can all go to sleep

Anyone want to discuss non-shield unids? Genuinely interested in opinions here. Outcast staves are a pretty common package.

All aboard! Thread staying on the rails! Choo choo!

Quote from Jonast

Outcast staves are a pretty common package.

You’d have to cast quite a few skills to be able to determine if the staff has a 10 or 20% hct for each staff.

It’s a bit more complicated than just equipping and getting hit/casting an enchant but still very possible if you’ve got the patience.

to determine a mod for ALL SPELLS OR specific attribute ( matching is what u nearly only want to check. maybe on DF u wanna check heal, prot and Smite) over all not to big of deal.

BUT to spot if its a 9% or 10% .... 19% or 20% thats where tricky comes

the 1% is hard to spot out when unidented but will effect the value a lot after ident

Quote from Mr. Clean(-Value)

the 1% is hard to spot out when unidented but will effect the value a lot after ident

True, didn’t actually think about the 1%

But still, it would allow the seller to gamble with a much narrower pool of insc. and then sell everything else as “unid”.

You’re practically narrowing down your staves to either 9/10 hct or 19/20 hct, which in my book is still a big win.