Everyone has their own opinions based what they collect And what not. Others think bds And insc crap are worthless another cares about usability and next Guy only wants items that are nerfed without matter For Any mods.
Everyone pays alot For items they like And thats how economy IS.
Yeah thats normal For items that that are "common" like elite tomes. Weapon mods. Some insc items. But when its about 1 of a kind unique items like some painting someone think its coolest And pays millions others Guy think its ugly And rather buys poster from supermarket
This is my own 2 cents, which may be worth 1 cent or more but still my own input....
When it comes to all items, whether pre-nerf or post-nerf, items can be useful or not useful but "quirky". Those quirky items can be more attractive to some players more than others. No disrespect at all to those that are not a fan of these "quirky" items, but on the other hand, no disrespect should be given to those who do like these types of items.
Then we have the owner/seller of these items, they are caught in the middle because just like any other seller, who wants to obtain the amount that people are willing to pay. By not providing these sellers a chance to sell the item by directing them to merch these quirky items, they may be losing an opportunity to earn some game money as well as the collectors who may actually want such an oddball item.
Before anyone jumps right to the point of "well it's only worth 10-50e so not worth selling", maybe to those who have more money than their inventory can hold, but other people may benefit from these small sells, or in some case enjoy selling things for the fun, regardless of value.
This is a game after all, meant to please all varieties of people, regardless of their own collecting interests or size of their bank.
Agent Chevy
I agree 100% with what Chevy Said, you couldnt have said IT better
omg omg prenerf item with crap stats, this must worth a lot.
Mashiro ive never seen you give an accurate PC. So your opinion here is invalid. Everything is merchfood to you.
As i said in the other thread, never ever ever ever EVER merch a prenerf item, there is ALWAYS someone willing to buy a piece of guildwars history, whatever the stats.
The issue here is people passing off junk as treasure, and thereby falsely assigning a value to an item that shouldn’t have a value.
2 years ago, those junk pre-nerf staves were 10k, today they are being sold for 50e+. This is not because the are suddenly rarer, or more valuable. It is because people in positions of influence within the community have said it should have a value. And those who don’t know better have followed the advice.
Junk is junk, treasure is treasure. We, as price checking gurus have a responsibility to keep ourselves honest and transparent. We cannot do this if we are assigning random high numbers to items that aren’t valuable.
And to Chevy, I would add that I don’t value items based on my wealth, I value items on their rarity, collectibility, availability and age. I presume you are referring to my price checking of the r7 celestial shield recently. To suggest otherwise is wrong.
You know Max once Upon a Time noneone liked Dual reductions And they were sold For pennies And nickles until some ppl started hype them For some reason..
Dont Be hater saying others ppls treasures are crap
That’s quite some leap there Ikki. My price checks are always objective and fair. No one is talking about what I collect, and I have made no comparisons to mys stuff either.
Yeah but you Cant say prices For Dual reds didnt Rise because u started hoarding them. Ppl are collecting what they can now which makes their prices rise. Thats just normal. You Cant live on past especially with items that are limited. All The crap q7's are getting rarer And rarer so its just normal they go up For being limited
I’m not claiming otherwise.
Ikki, you have considerable influence over the economy here, so I would expect you to wield that influence responsibly instead of artificially increasing prices by assigning random numbers. We have had this discussion before, and I see you are still doing it. It’s unhelpful.
But read what Chevy Said. IS IT More helpful say:merch The items?
Im not generally making prices off My head. IT comes from years exprience of selling The items And i know what ive sold it. And The prices evolve all The Time And there IS no reason they would atleast go Down all of sudden when IT comes to Limited items
And to Chevy, I would add that I don’t value items based on my wealth, I value items on their rarity, collectibility, availability and age. I presume you are referring to my price checking of the r7 celestial shield recently. To suggest otherwise is wrong.
Actually Max, for you to assume that I was referring to any one specific price check would be greatly incorrect. By you being offensive and jumping to a conclusion of what you believe I was referring to speaks volumes. My input was intended to speak in general and not limited to your own price checks. People suggest others to merch things that I may be interested in all the time and it's evident that I am not alone. Everyone has the right to provide their own opinion, but that's what it is. If someone else wouldn't merch that item, it doesn't make their decision incorrect.
My whole point is that everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Just because something is one person's own dislike, doesn't mean that everyone in the world has to dislike that item as well.
I have always had respect for your price checking for many many moons, and my respect doesn't change, however my own interest of what to collect isn't going to change just because someone else doesn't like those items.
If everyone lived by this philosophy, wouldn't everyone be driving the same identical car and living in the same type of house? The answer is no, because everyone has their own likes and dislikes.
Agent Chevy
I’m not sure how you arrived at the conclusion I am being offensive. I’m just defending what appears to be a sleight on wealthy people valuin items....
I come to the opposite conclusion of that, that wealthy people tell you to merch everything that aint worth over 100e as to them, 100e is nothing.
I think we can all agree that Price checks should be conducted by an evaluation of current market value based on similar trades. With that being said, the items that are easier to apply this methodology to is the items that are more common and do have records of sales in the recent past.
Items that are not so common (whether pre-nerf or not, for example rare shields), it's hard to provide an accurate price check for these items, I fully understand that. In my own opinion, I know others have stated this in their price check response, these items probably should be left to the actual bidding process to determine what people are willing to pay.
The suggestion to merch an item just because the price checker wouldn't keep it themselves is what I am pointing out as being an opinion, just like all opinions, some people will agree, some will disagree, neither is wrong, it's personal interest, the motivator of this interest differs by person.
I have seen price checking responses that include "xx ectos but wouldn't be worth the time to sell", granted it may be accurate at times that it will take some time to sell, but this may actually be worth the time to sell for someone else. I wouldn't suggest to a child to not sell lemonade at a lemonade stand because it will take too long to make money.
I have to say here that only telling people to "see what bids go" wastes alot potential in many items. Maybe with guru it worked when majority of community used The site it worked. But with only small part of community being on legacy thesedays i often know many stuff posted could be sold for alot higher ingame or to right people.
So giving Price checks based on that is rly important. Ppl can Be cut short here on this site aswell not only ingame.
People have brought this up before me, but fundamentally price checks on anything nonstandard is of very very middling usefulness. Especially in current economy.
A BDS and Cele compass might have fixed prices, maybe even a 20/20 staff. Anything other than that goes by two things, and two things alone:
(1) what buyer will pay
(2) what seller will accept
There is nothing else to it. A price check is an estimation of what you think a potential buyer will pay, and what you think a potential seller will accept. This is going to vary based on your own likes and wants. It is going to vary by what is popular and what isn't. It is going to vary by demand and supply. But fundamentally all PCing does is propose a number for what I listed.
When there is a very niche item, sometimes the answer is not "I don't know" sometimes the answer is "I know it's worth something, by no one can tel you what, so jus wait and See."
And sometimes, what a seller wants doesn't comport with what market of buyers will pay. This doesn't even have to be the case for Q8 crystas; just look at Ikkis 20/20 Death offhand. Imo that's worth way more than 750e. The fact that it has no takers says buyers think otherwise.
The end all be all of this is that PCing is a horribly inexact art, especially nowadays.
I want to Ask from anyone that has sold some high end items recently on legacy If theyve sold them For bids here? I can answer For Myself. Answer IS no. Everytime i Post someting If id sell them For bids received on legacy IT would Be same as getting robbed.
Now why on earth i would suggest other ppl sell items For bids here?
Bids give you a ballpark of interest that you can use to create a buyout.
Otherwise why even have our bidding process at all. . .
It's all about creating and gauging interest to meet those two numbers I referenced.
all of this nuanced conversation about the 'economy' is moot.
whether be in game or on the forum, the sample size is just too small. there is no such thing as an "accurate price check". the best you can do is see what things are actually being sold for and go from there. prices seem to change on a weekly basis. you may sell an item in 3 hours for 10a this week, next week you may struggle to get an offer over 3a. then again it may fetch 30a the next week. it all depends on who is online that week.
I had a conversation with someone on this forum who said he got an item "pced" by a "friend" at "no less than 20a". he has been trying to sell that item for months and the highest offer he got maybe a couple arms.
the fact is we are playing a game of 'who happens to be buying the item that I am selling atm'. if two people really want an item and go at it, final price may be 80a. but the third highest bid of interest may be 5a.
[font="Hind,sans-serif"]I want to share everyone [/font][font="Hind,sans-serif"]True Story[/font][font="Hind,sans-serif"] about gw and how prices evolve, Hopefully it makes ppl wonder and make their own conclusions.[/font]
Back in 2009 i used own every item just like these 3 im using here as example
Price back in 2009?
100ectos 50e 75e
Rarity since?
Ive seen a few, 3-5, many similar ones Ive seen Dozens, alot similar and nicer I have Yet to see better curse straw or
another skin in same class in last 8years.
Value now?
Probably 100A+ 50-100A+ Probably less then original 75e.
Conclusion?
Does True rarity of items matter even little to items valuation?
If someone wouldve started hoarding straws like ppl did examples 1 or 2 could it be alot higher?
If ppl wouldnt have hoarder the examples 1 or 2 would their prices be in same class with straw or less?
Can we blame botters and gold buyers as everyone does for everything happening on market?
Noneone can say but the absolute fact is Rarity has Nothing To do with prices these items sell for and its just my 2 cents.
-Pleikki
ps. ty tyrant<3
[font="Hind, sans-serif"]You're welcome for your incredible struggle with spacing[/font]
Yes The main point in here is that ppl need to stop mixing rarity with demand THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS
I see everyday ppl say someting is rare simply because its sells for alot. NO that is Demand Not Rarity
Same goes for "Quirky" or some would call "Bad" items, There is no Demand that doesnt make it common.
Everyone has to remember It only takes that 1 Buyer (Demand) for the quirky item sell for high price.
So please. stop saying someting is common or rare and base your opinions on that especially if u got no idea what ure talking about.
-Pleikki
I totally agree with pleikki.
As seen in the sell-topic the q7 single mod cele is now at 150e...
The market is crazy. Stuff is normally worthless is now something that can bring good money. And also the other way around.
Max I don't know either why you said merch to that. I know this is off topic but it's just stupid
Love it when people say merch stuff and the bids within first day hit 2arms, pmsl.
(not directed at you max, i think you just got a bit carried away with this one, deep down you know it aint merch food)
Love it when people say merch stuff and the bids within first day hit 2arms, pmsl.(not directed at you max, i think you just got a bit carried away with this one, deep down you know it aint merch food)
It seems that people will pay stupid money for junk these days 
I’d merch it or give it to a collector. Certainly wouldn’t pay anything for it.
(r7/16 single mod celestial shield, +41/stance).
@Rav, I did concede that it shouldn’t be merched, but not because it has any value, it should be kept for its age. And donated.
Seems to me there is a distinction between pricing and selling something in order to make a profit, and pricing and selling for a fair price....
Maybe I’m just cynical, but I view it as people manipulating the market to serve themselves.....
Umm guys & gals.. you're all clearly wrong, this is taken straight from Urban Dictionary (and we all know it's true then):
price check
When you are a guy and you look at another guy's nuts.
I just caught you price checking that guy.
Summary: We have all been wrong these last 12 years, hence all this bickering is pointless!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a more serious note; Price check, in my opinion, is a GUESS based on two things.
1. What the most recent items of the same/similar type were sold for.
2. How interested the current market is of these items.
Nothing else really matters regarding a price check, not rarity, not how much you value/like it, nothing. A price check is an impartial estimation of what you can expect to get if you would sell the item at current market value, based on those two things. Anything other than that is wrong.
I want to point out that this is just my opinion, not saying it's the right one by any means, nor that you have to feel/think the same! :cool:
Peace and love // Coffee Man
P.S Please don't ban me if my quote from urban dictionary in any way broke the forum rules, it's all for the greater good! 
Seems to me there is a distinction between pricing and selling something in order to make a profit, and pricing and selling for a fair price....Maybe I’m just cynical, but I view it as people manipulating the market to serve themselves.....
Ive allways though the exacly same about u trying manipulate ppl sell items for less then they could and deserved get when uve told me not to put high prices to ppl's mind with high price checks. Allways though that equals scamming not tell ppl what they could get
Also i remember all the times (everytime) youve posted someting for sale. youve NEVER sold items for bids received, allways QQ:d about ppl lowballing you and getting serious with the bids.. What puts you above all the rules you tell to other ppl? When will you sell ur items for fair prices..
Do first, say after, dont be hypocrite and do exact opposite you say.
My my my.
Seems I’ve hit a nerve Ikki.
Just to add, I haven’t mentioned you as manipulating the market to serve yourself, yet you have jumped straight back with a personal attack on me. .... maybe I’m closer to the truth than you’d like to admit.
Also, if you check any of my sales threads (apart from my last one) you’ll see I always sell for what the bids are assuming the reserves are met. So I’m not sure why you’ve brought that up... seems bitter to me .
It's not and can't be market manipulation when it's a niche item.
Market manipulation only works in broad categories because there is demand--case in point Q8 +5e Swords and axes.
Unless you mean the overvaluing of prenerf staves/etc in general, but that comes down to age and botting imo. You definitely can't ascribe market condition to one person or even a group, outside of discrete examples like Q8 +5e weaps or botting devaluing Canthan staves.
Also I think Ikkis argument only makes sense in terms of -2/-2 if he's arguing artificial scarcity via hoarding ? But I guess that could apply to something as big as Hammers too, with someone like Kabong; of me with fire items.
To me that is not market manipulation.
You rly dont see the problem here Max. I dont understand how you got nerve coming completely out of The box without having any clue on todays market say other ppl what items should be sold for. Other ppl, active ppl go with current market And value their items And Price checks based on that. Youre the one here trying manipulate market with trying tell ppl false information from Ur own mind without any idea how things are thesedays.
You Make yourself completely fool everytime you open Ur mouth.
Legacy IS great place nothing wrong with The site, only you keeping ppl away from here with all The craziness your trying here do, i seriously recommend stepping Down For legacy sake.
PS. The point wasnt about selling items For reserves you have Set. It was about what right u got to say ur reserves or prices are fair More then others. I can say they arent. And still u complain other ppl asking or selling too high.
[snip]Also i remember all the times (everytime) youve posted someting for sale. youve NEVER sold items for bids received, allways QQ:d about ppl lowballing you and getting serious with the bids.. What puts you above all the rules you tell to other ppl? When will you sell ur items for fair prices..
Do first, say after, dont be hypocrite and do exact opposite you say.
As long as there have been sites like Guru and Wartower, there have been bidders trying to get something for nothing. A seller who:
1) has a price in mind
2) makes that price clear to the public, and
3) sells when an item reaches the stated price
...is a dream come true. If that person expresses frustration at people continuing to try to get something for nothing despite the seller's top-notch knowledge of his wares, that's natural. It's annoying to have your intelligence insulted by greedy bidders.
The fact that bids are low doesn't mean that low prices are fair. I hate to be blunt about it, but that's just a dumb idea.
Since this is a thread on today's market in guild wars. I would love to give my thoughts. I've been waiting to give my thoughts which I will do so in this mess of hodge-podge below. I will admit first off that I have not read much of anyone else's thoughts. And I will also admit that I have become less active in recent day for 4 reasons: It is first, partly because of this. Partly because I am enjoying pokemon more. And partly getting more busy. And partly because I just can't compete anymore - see point 5 below.
That being said. What are Surge Goes Pre's thoughts on this market?
1. Prices are stupid high for some things. I'm sorry, they are in my opinion. It's a sellers market for rare items - maybe the best sellers market that I can think of ever happening in guild wars. You can basically get anything for a rare item it seems as long as someone wants it for something.
2. Because other people see exceptionally great items go for stupid high prices, they think their not so exceptionally great items are also worth stupid money. And then they don't sell for those stupid high prices asked for and instead of thinking 'hey I should lower my price', they think, 'why aren't my bids high enough'. Like they aren't the problem.
3. Items that historically have always been merch crap and literally are merch crap, are selling for a few armbraces. Crazy.
4. I think the main reason behind all this crazy stupid prices is real life gold selling. Armbraces aren't worth much in real life and so if you want 20a or 200a to go buy an item, people just use paypal first.
5. Building on 4, It's really hard to compete with someone ebaying their money in this market. It takes a long time to make 200a in game legitimately. And that is very frustrating to see a no-name ebayer just walk up and outbid you with stupid money.
6. Bots are killing the market for certain items. And driving up the prices massively on others. A lot of skins that used to be treasures are now approaching trash status in terms of how common they have become.... Dragon staff, Bo staff, Platinum staff to name a few. And people who do bot sell the items they get and then they have stupid money to buy other stuff - just like ebayers do.
7. A brief comment on hoarding - the only thing I'll reference from this thread. There are a couple people hoarding different items. This hoarding has created a false notion of rarity. They have most definitely driven the prices of those items up. Unfortunately I think that if these people ever decide to sell the items they hoarded, they will flood the market because they have so many of these items and there isn't much demand for them outside these hoarders themselves. So they will either never sell their items, or have to compromise on what they think the value is and lower them. Even though there is stupid money around, I think the stupidest money comes out for rarest things. And the fact that there are hordes of items in hoarded collections means by default they aren't that rare in terms of survival into 2017 on active accounts compared to other items in guild wars because there are so many in the horde. And that's all I'll say on that.
It was a nice run in guild wars! Thanks for the memories everyone who helped contribute to them :).
