Thoughts about how to create an ideal warstaff

Ostona · December 17, 2020 at 3:54 AM

The other day while I was farming Midshipman Morolah and Spafrod Iceblood to get the Morolah's Staff and Iceblood's Warstaff, I realized that since I started playing GW the unconscious assiduity (started in Nightfall with the inscriptions) was always using staves with +5 Energy (Inscriptions: "Hale and hearty" or "Have faith"), +30HP (Staff Head: Hale) and +45HP enchanted (Staff Wrapping: Devotion). Sometimes I changed my staff wrapping of "Devotion" for "Enchanting", so that the attunements would last me longer. Etcetera.

We all know that in the past people used to use staves instead wands/focus (because the staff was "more cool ~~" in hand), I remember The Scar Eater as one of the staves most played in its time (but this is from Monk profession, so does not apply to this case, is just an example).

With the rise and popularity of the 40/40 sets, people started to forget about staves, so except for running/farming (and excluding PvP because is another thing), the staff itself as weapon was a bit outcast.

Back to the topic about Morolah and Iceblood, is when I thought: "As Elementalist I've been using a 40/40 set since 2010 at least, without problems, so I don't really need a boost of HP or Enchanting, not even energy, I survive perfectly with the HP I have already, with the energy of my primary attribute at 12 points and with the current longevity of the attunements of the magic attribute itself, so why do I still have my staves with health and energy when what I need is to have more raw power like with the 40/40 set?

I say this because those green staves (Morolah and Iceblood) both have the same stats with an unique difference, one is +30HP and the other is "Enchantments last 20% longer", so I thought that the developers created those two staves with a clear intention regarding the 40% casting time, they are an attempt to work like a 40/40 set (but as a staff, obviously). Knowing that I don't need an Enchantments 20% longer if I'm not running/farming, and the extra HP is not a problem because we casters always attack from afar and the Heroes of our team can heal us quickly, what is the missing thing to finish perfecting a warstaff?

I did a quick search in my vault box and I realized that the Firebrand, Kunvie's Air Staff, Kaolin Water Staff and Arbor's Earth Staff all have a +1 for each attribute, the same staff wrapping of the Phoenix's Retribution (another staff created by the developers with a clear intention, to boost the power of the spirit rituals).

I was thinking about it a few minutes ago while I was buying mods in Kamadan to upgrade the pack of staves that I bought this week here to various members of this forum, and my conclusion is that the "best" warstaff (in my personal opinion) is to create a mix of the things explained above, that is basically one of these 3 options:

Inscriptions:

Don't think twice (Halves casting time of spells 10%)
Aptitude not attitude (Halves casting time of spells of item's attribute 20%)

Staff Head

Swift (Halves casting time of spells 10%)
Adept (Halves casting time of spells of item's attribute 20%)

Staff Wrapping

Mastery (item's attribute +1/20%)

Because the staff is a two-handed weapon, we can't have stats like the 40/40 set of wand + focus, each weapon has its pros and cons, so in my opinion I think this is the best raw power for our staves we can use as spellcasters in general PvE content.

I just saw a few hours ago a post by Cloud Strife from Nov 15th 2020 (source) and I was surprised seeing another person using it, so I thought it would be a good idea to create a thread explaining the benefits instead having to read a giant page from the wiki with merged information.

What do you think? Is there anyone else who uses this?

Bluey · December 17, 2020 at 4:56 AM

I think you're not alone. Here's what my fire hero use. The elite is Searing Flames (for nostalgia). I like the +20%en, which can't be found on a wand-focus combination.

My player characters use AP+EVAS. It just suits my playstyle somehow. Since the spells are not linked to a staff attribute, these are the staves I use. (my first attempt at creating a collector-styled pic, haha it's rough)

sorry for the messy background, will get it right next time...

Ostona · December 17, 2020 at 6:31 AM

Quote from Bluey

Since the spells are not linked to a staff attribute, these are the staves I use.

Good advice. I have to update my Energy Storage staves with a 10/10 too, I created the post thinking of secondary attributes and I forgot the primary ones.

Regarding the Armor +5, in my 1 vs 1 tests I have never found appreciable differences in damage, the only use I find is for farming or running (vaettir, for example). In this case I think 30~45HP is better (I have some for free if you need).

Grant West · December 18, 2020 at 4:43 PM

In T4 UWSC I use an Envoy Staff as they have a 10%hct inherent, then put another two mods on it.

So it becomes 10%hct, 10%hct, 10%hct, +20% enchanting

Whilst on the subject I once met this dude who played only with a staff for damage, his build was quite interesting and funny to me and I still have it saved, he also ran a ranger who only used a staff and called it a "druid" he was using beast mastery + smiting enchants to buff his pet in prophecies.

Ostona · December 18, 2020 at 11:30 PM

Grant West really interesting, I never noticed the HCT on the Envoy Staff (I have the scythe but I never paid attention to the staff).

I created the code for the one above: OAajQyiIiSLg0iykzkIbdDZgXM

(~~I guess this build is to be used with the stats of the Envoy Staff of your picture, isn't?~~) EDIT: I'm idiot, the Envoy Staff is for the UW running as you well say, I was thinking in the Rt/E build when I wrote the message and for some reason I have associated one thing with the other > . < (thanks Mr. Clean(-Value) for pointing it XD)

Do you remember the Ranger build? I would like to try it too.

Marty Silverblade · December 19, 2020 at 1:40 AM Official Post

Quote from Ostona

I created the code for the one above: OAajQyiIiSLg0iykzkIbdDZgXM (I guess this build is to be used with the stats of the Envoy Staff of your picture, isn't?)

HCT mods won't do anything for that build. You'd want HRT to try and get your enchants available sooner in case they get stripped, given you'd be useless without them. You may also want to switch to a spear for attacking - you'll get 16% more hits in (and can use a shield), though there are downsides to that. I also doubt Shell Shock is worth it - it's not going to overcome the damage you get by just autoattacking, and if you really care about the bleeding from Deft Strike you can always bring Weaken Armor on a hero.

Mr. Clean(-Value) · December 19, 2020 at 2:05 AM

The anti blind skill from Ritualist. Sight of the unseen or how it's called. It's on spawning 5 mana and 1/4 cast time. Effect. U can't be blinded. That's a high recommendation.

The idea why staff over spear is the conjure aspect I think ( elementalist second class) and So u get a really juicy High dmg hit from a staff ( the warstaff).

Marty Silverblade · December 19, 2020 at 2:24 AM Official Post

You don't need to be /P to use a spear. You won't get any base damage out of it but that's not the point of the build. Sight Beyond Sight isn't a high priority if you're using a staff because the enemies will consider you to be a caster and typically not bother blinding you.

Mr. Clean(-Value) · December 19, 2020 at 3:45 AM

Yeah right the mobs are coded to recognize people with staff as casters and will daze you instead of blind when they have the option to chose. That's like true in depth game knowledge ( cookie for that one. Not all players know I would assume. Me included )

So sight beyond on a Staff is Nay.

On spear(daggers,...) it is Yay

When u run a spear I still would recommend to run paragon second class to get use of the spear skills first of all (deepwound and other use full options like "disruptive throw") and the base dmg is also quite nice to have imo. it's like the conjure dmg but elementalist secondary class just doesn't provide much for Spear onhit except for conjure. The staff synergy and when u wanna be the warstaff guy that, as we learned, doesn't even struggle with blind.

The hct envoy staff that was postet is used to the UW t4 role the poster said. Wich I would say is not the build postet below ( the ritu/ele bar). Envoy and Ritu/Elebar have no intended relation. To each other at least that's how I read from the post.

I REALLY like the idea of the warstaff and staff dmg build. Dealing insane onhit dmg with a staff is thinking outside the box since like even most martial weapons have turned into "wands" with +5en 20% ench. Also pretty badass when maybe running a BP-staff for the real "Hit EM with a stick" - vibe.

PS: that pet master druid idea sounds also pretty interesting . It can also be a great build for maxing survival title or the gwamm without deaths challenges

Mr. Clean(-Value) · December 19, 2020 at 11:50 AM

Also what comes to my mind for the attacking staff build. U can add a 15^50 or 15^ench to a staff right? That would be really exotic. I think there is not 1 green version with such mod installed. But for a staff attacking build it would be best. Really exotic. Also the +1/20 for a boost on conjure or spawning. ALSO mind blow. Doesn't a spwaning staff do lightning dmg to?

Big question: on martial weapons the more Mastery u skill the higher the chance of a crit strike ( only crit or also the max dmg like 15-22 sword. So hit more to the 22dmg range then the 15dmg? Or that is true random?)

SO when a spawning staff does lighting dmg(?) and u skill spawning to 16 (12+1+3) then the dmg output also is more insane then if you would wield a air staff. So the synergy between Conjure lightning and Spawning is even higher!!! ( if spawning staff does like fire or ice u should switch the conjure)

Also a big question. CAN staffs crit? I would say yes due to my exp with a "Assisns Promise"(Ebon asssin+YMLD+Finish Him) - Sin. I also added a critical eye and way of the master and I did crits because I regained energy.

This whole attacking staff and warstaff topic tickles my whole body and I got that itching urge to slap mops with my sticks xD Imagine running like 5 charr warrior running at u seeing a Dude with a Staff and they allrdy want to rupt and daze strike you. And then u start casting not 1 single spell on them and instead you are slaying them down with insane attacks peed and 120dmg staff attacks. Even their grandchildren would poop char carvings in Front of you when you revisit that area again xD

Bluey · December 19, 2020 at 12:46 PM

Alright you made me play the game again, shame on me, lol

tested with this bar on a rit, 16 spawning power, 10 channeling

OAajgkiJJTvlZgIbdD5iqiMTlT

I repeatedly spanked a dummy in the nameless isle (..wait what did I just do)

with a spawning power staff, I got 3 critical hits within 200 hits, and the damage was 31, without buffs

with a channeling staff, I got 0 critical hits within 200 hits; the first critical hit was at the 258 hit, and the damage was also 31

(ahem, and why do I sound like Master of Damage now..)

so there you go

I think more tests are needed, cause within 200 hits, it may just be luck

but from these preliminary results, the chance of critical might be increased with the attribute, although not very significantly

and the critical hit damage is the same, that means the base damage is perhaps also the same (which was stated on wiki too)

Marty Silverblade · December 20, 2020 at 3:01 AM Official Post

Some thoughts:

-Staves function as a skill on a stick rather than a martial weapon so the base damage won't scale according to your attribute - unfortunately having 16 spawning won't give you an extra ~15% damage.

-The wiki claims the attribute only affects critical chance for martial weapons. The formula isn't clear to me so I ran six three minute trials against the master of damage with 9 and 16 fire magic, with the following total damage results:

9: 1707, 1660, 1675, 1670, 1680, 1689 (average 1680.16)

16: 1733, 1690, 1728, 1660, 1771, 1691 (average 1712.16)

If the crit chance is supposedly the same, why is there a discrepancy in damage? I would think the sample size is big enough here. I suppose if you look at it from a dps point of view an extra 32 points over 180 seconds is next to nothing, but the 9 scores look too consistent to ever reach 1730+ without an absurd amount of luck. Idk. Fortunately, it doesn't really matter if we understand it or not because we'll be maxing spawning regardless.

-Great Dwarf Weapon would be great, but cannot self target. It would also remove the need to invest into channeling (but add the need to consume alcohol), allowing you to either max out the conjure attribute (+3 damage) or spend elsewhere.

-SS+Conjure+EBSoH+GDW+IATS = 109 damage. A customised 15^50 staff crit would deal 43 damage against a 60AL target. (A non crit with the same bonuses would deal 15-30 damage, with an average of 23.) So a 152 damage staff hit against the master of damage should be possible (albeit with another player providing GDW); is there anything else that could be added? If you only cared about the single highest damage rather than dps you could use Dodge This rather than Drunken Master. Judge's Insight won't work because it changes your damage type and I can't think of a way to get it back to elemental.

Grant West · December 30, 2020 at 2:37 PM

Ok so after seeing Marty reply in another thread I stumbled across this gem, I guess you could call it a "defence staff".

Gives me +9energy, 10%hct, +12AR on a ranger with no investment in Divine Favor.

Also notice the -5%crit chance? I think this could relate to the last post.

Ostona · December 30, 2020 at 9:51 PM

Quote from Grant West

Ok so after seeing Marty reply in another thread I stumbled across this gem, I guess you could call it a "defence staff".

Gives me +9energy, 10%hct, +12AR on a ranger with no investment in Divine Favor.

Also notice the -5%crit chance? I think this could relate to the last post.

Display More

First time seeing this, where does the Critical hit -5% come from?

Edit: nevermind, found: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_n…llector_weapons

I didn't know about it, really curious.

Ostona · February 6, 2021 at 5:21 PM

I had many upgrades for staff in the storage and based on Bluey pictures I crafted a defensive set for the fun (with the Onyx Staff, that adds visual endurance).

(I don't know if this is useful somewhere or not though)

Mr. Clean(-Value) · February 6, 2021 at 6:02 PM

it seems quite special to me that the same skin on the same req accures with diffrent DMG-types

Like we have 3 Onyx Staffs all on ES but 1 with Cold dmg and 2 with earth. Or does ES come randomly in all elemental DMGs allways on all staffs?

Ostona · February 6, 2021 at 6:10 PM

Quote from Mr. Clean(-Value)

it seems quite special to me that the same skin on the same req accures with diffrent DMG-types

Like we have 3 Onyx Staffs all on ES but 1 with Cold dmg and 2 with earth. Or does ES come randomly in all elemental DMGs allways on all staffs?

Now that you mention it, I think you are right, the Energy Storage comes with all the elements, because I have one Q11 and this one is Lightning damage.

Quote from Mr. Clean(-Value)

That was new to me. Overall i know some skins have diffrent DMG types. i wasnt aware that even same skin and same attribute can have diffrent dmg types. Maybe also some Monk staffs can have Holy dmg or Fire ?

maybe someone has more informations on that

q11 Divine Favor (Fire damage)

Mr. Clean(-Value) · February 6, 2021 at 6:14 PM

That was new to me. Overall i know some skins have diffrent DMG types. i wasnt aware that even same skin and same attribute can have diffrent dmg types. Maybe also some Monk staffs can have Holy dmg or Fire ?

maybe someone has more informations on that