The truth about Pre-Nerf

1st Official Post
    • Official Post

    I thought it might be helpful to collate a list of stats we know to be Pre-Nerf.

    An item is considered Pre-Nerf if it cannnot drop any more. In other words, the possibility of the game generating these stats or items has been physically removed by the coders at Anet, mainly 2005/2006 around the release of Factions. The only way to acquire Pre-Nerf items is through trading with other players.

    This is a list of items which in my opinion are truly Pre-Nerf (and the purpose of this thread is to confirm and add/remove stat ranges in order to establish a definitive list). I haven't included Triple Modded items or Mausoleum items because those are considered bugged, not Pre-Nerf.

    These are known to be Pre-Nerf:

    Any weapons
    - Any weapon in r7 with max damage regardless of mods (also non max damage Sword r7 above 14-21 damage, or axe above 6-25 damage, Hammer above 18-32 damage)
    - Any FACTIONS or Tyrian NON INSCRIABLE staff with a restoration requirement.
    - Any FACTIONS wand with a restoration requirement[/font]
    - Any r8 staff with max (11-22) damage
    - Any r8 axe with max (6-28) damage
    - Any r8 hammer with max (19-35) damage
    - Any r8 bow with max (15-28) damage
    - Any weapon with an unconditional inherent damage mod, eg. +14% damage with no negatives
    - Any GOLD staff with a requirement of 0
    - Any staff whose HSR mod is written in GOLD text.
    - Any staff which misses HSR Mod completely, also applies to whites and blues or purples)
    - Any Grim Cesta with a healing requirement. These only come in blood magic now.

    Any Shields
    - Any shield in r7 with 16 armour regardless of mods
    - Any shield with two inherent [reduces physical damage received by X] mods (aka Dual Reduction).
    - Any shield with a [received physical damage -3(10%)] mod. (including non-max mods)

    Specific shield skins in r8/16 non-inscribable (OldSchool) only

    This Applies to Golds and Purples only, Blues and Whites are still possible EXCEPT For Tyrian skins in purple like Magmas, Summit Warlord Shield and Stone Summit Shield are possible to drop in r8/16 From the Keyless chest in Sorrow furnance (Same place can drop Purple q8 crystalline swords)
    - Magmas
    - Stone Summit
    - Summit Warlord
    - Eternal
    - Zodiac
    - Shadow
    - Exalted Aegis,
    - Gloom Shield
    The minimum level of the enemies in the areas these dropped was raised, thereby removing 8/16 as a possible drop for these skins. 9/16 is the lowest these now generate.


    Gold Shields
    - Any GOLD shield with a -2/hexed mod. (These only come -3/hexed now)
    - Any GOLD shield with a -1/enchanted or -1/stance mod. (These only come -2 now)
    - Any GOLD shield with a +40/[stance or enchanted] or lower inherent mod.
    - Any GOLD shield with a +8 armour or lower vs damage type mod. For example +8 armour vs slashing
    - Any GOLD shield with a +26hp or lower inherent mod.
    - Any GOLD shield with a non max -5(20%) mod (these only come -5/20 or -5/19% now). For example -4(19%).
    - Any GOLD shield with +55hp/hex or below
    - Any Any Gold Shield with +1attri/18% or lower

    Purple Shields
    - Any PURPLE shield with a +19hp or lower inherent mod.
    - Any PURPLE shield with a +29/[stance or enchanted] or lower inherent mod.
    - Any Purple shield with -3/xx%
    - Any purple shield with +5armour or Below vs specific damage type

    GOLD weapons
    - Any GOLD Non-inscribable weapon with +13%[condition] or lower inherent mod
    - Any GOLD Non-inscribable weapon with +18%[while Hexed] or lower inherrent mod
    - Any GOLD Non-inscribable weapons with +18%[below 50%] or lower inherrent mod

    Purple Weapons
    - Any PURPLE Non-inscribable weapon with +11 or 12%[condition]
    - Any PURPLE Non-inscribable weapon with +xx%/-5 energy, +xx%/-10 armour or +xx%/-1[energy or health] regen
    - Any PURPLE Non-inscriable weapon with 11-14% While hex.
    - Any PURPLE Non-inscriable weapon with 11-14% while below 50%.

    Specific Weapon skins in r8 only
    - Straw Effigys
    - Zodiac swords
    - Shadow blades
    - Vertebreakers


    Specific skins regardless of requirement
    - Any GOLD non-inscribable Crystalline sword with an inherrent (OS) mod
    - Any GOLD Non-inscribable Dwarven Axe with an inherrent (OS) mod
    - Any GOLD Non-inscribable Dwarven Hammer
    - Any GOLD Non-Inscribable Krytan Axe
    - Any Swamp Club
    - Any GOLD Non-inscribable Serpent Axe (Tyrian Skin only)
    - Any PURPLE Non-incribable Serpent Axe (Tyrian Skin only) which also has a Pre-Nerf purple Mod (see any purple weapon section above). Purple versions with non-Pre-Nerf can still drop
    - Any Fire Staff with the Dead Staff skin only
    - Any Water Staff with the Dead Staff skin only- The Henge of Denravi sword - http://guildwiki.gamepedia.com/Denravi_Sword
    - Henge of Denravi Axe, Bow and Hammer also are Nerfed

    Weapons Mods
    - Any sundering weapon mod of 10/9% or lower (10/10 sword mod is still available)
    - Any weapon mod with +25% damage vs Charr
    - Any Vampiric mod with 1-2/ -1 for sword or axe and 1-3/-1 for hammer or bow
    - Any Furious weapon mod 10/4 or lower.


    Runes
    -50hp Major runes, all versions
    Superior runes with Minor rune icon
    Superior runes with Blue color
    Superior or Major runeswhich remain unsalvaged on a Blue armor/garb item

    Miscellaneous
    - Any Mixed dyes
    - Jade Wind Orbs
    - Naga Fangs.
    - Zaishen Medallions.
    - Brick of Mud,
    - Clay Bricks,
    - Olias's resignation letter,
    - Winter Gifts,
    - Dye remover,
    - White Staff Wrappings,
    - Customized Minatures,
    - Festival hats that are Rune/insignia Able

    Please feel free to add any more that I haven't got here. I'll update the top post as necessary.


    Max

    "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" - Oscar Wilde

    Edited once, last by MaxBorken (August 29, 2017 at 7:46 AM).

    Any Shields
    - Any shield with a non max -5(20%) mod (these only come -5/20 or -5/19% now). For example -4(19%).

    Those do still happen on purple shields - think this belongs to the gold shield section.
    Furthermore I´d think it is very important to finally get this organized: when did which get nerfed? as for example there was a nerf on staves HSR mods being inherent and another one to not drop them max q8 anymore. A link to the Wiki Page of the Updates in question would be THE thing we´d have to find.
    On Runes: Major and superior Runes with small rune icon, Major runes with -50HP ... here a wiki link to the referring update would also bring some clarification :)

    I WTB all kinds of Tower Shields and Defenders. I do drop research - if you find anything remarkable or want to see the results - check the thread or send a pm!

    IGN1 Red Fireball Rusher

    IGN2 Silberner Magier

    • Official Post

    Well, if it can still drop, it isn't pre-nerf.

    Some Inscribable weapons can drop without their inscription slot. There are a couple of folks who collect them even. It's not common, but it does happen. An r8 gold naked crystalline would be pre-nerf, as r8 max crystallines aren't possible any more. I don't think r9 crystallines (from the halls of heroes chest only) can drop without an inscription slot.

    • Official Post

    Any weapon can drop clean. Clean crysta's can be prenerf, but they don't have to be. A clean r9-13 Crysta can still drop today. Clean "inscriptable" weapons like a bds drop when it is generated without an inscription in the inscription slot. A good example of a high end clean drop is Zephyrs clean Obsidian Edge.

    A naked crysta can be pre-nerf, but if it is r9-13 there is noway of telling it is actually prenerf. Since it could have dropped today from the Zaishen Chest or in 2005 from Sorrow's Furnace. This is about gold crysta's only ofc.

    Quote from lexc


    Hi, again me^^, is Q9 tyrian serpent axe purple max dmg pre nerf ?
    Thank's
    Lexc

    here if u read closely u can see that ur question can be answered by lookin at the list max provided ;P

    Quote from MaxBorken


    Specific skins regardless of requirement

    - Any Non-inscribable Serpent Axe (Tyrian Skin only)

    Quote from Händler

    here if u read closely u can see that ur question can be answered by lookin at the list max provided ;P

    Except thats total BS, Purple Serpent axes with tyrian skin drops from Keyless chests in UW, Fow and Sorrow furnance and arent prenerf unless theyre q8 or have nerfed dmg mod such as xx/-5 xx/-10 xx/-1 11-12%^x or 11-14below or while hex

    • Official Post
    Quote from Pleikki

    Except thats total BS, Purple Serpent axes with tyrian skin drops from Keyless chests in UW, Fow and Sorrow furnance and arent prenerf unless theyre q8 or have nerfed dmg mod such as xx/-5 xx/-10 xx/-1 11-12%^x or 11-14below or while hex

    Thanks Ikki. This is why this thread exists. Can you write that again for non inscribable Tyrian serpent axes so I can cut 'n paste it into the top post please?

    Sorry i might be lil rusty and forgot someting as i havent been online soon 2months, lol but here what fixing i could figure out quickly top of my head ;)

    Also I'll add here as personal note, Gw community should think wether Count Bugged items such as mausos to prenerfs too, would make it alot simples, Or at least similar thread should be made about Bugged items. Or Change this thread to "The Truth about Pre-Nerf and Bugged weapons" and Add list of possible mauseleums and similars here too.

    Ive added new things using "NEW!"

    These are known to be Pre-Nerf:

    Any weapons
    - Any weapon in r7 with max damage regardless of mods NEW! (also nonmax dmg Sword q7 above 14-21 dmg, or axe above 6-25 dmg, Hammer above 18-32 dmg)
    - Any FACTIONS (New! ANY NON INSCRIABLE, Also tyrian such as raven used to drop) staff with a restoration requirement
    - Any FACTIONS wand with a restoration requirement
    - Any r8 staff with max (11-22) damage
    - Any weapon with an unconditional inherent damage mod, eg. +14% damage with no negatives
    - Any GOLD staff with a requirement of 0
    - Any staff whose HSR mod is written in GOLD text. NEW! (OR misses HSR Mod completely, also applies to whites and blues or purples)

    Any Shields
    - Any shield in r7 with 16 armour regardless of mods
    - Any shield with two inherent [reduces physical damage received by X] mods (aka Dual Reduction).
    - Any shield with a [received physical damage -3(10%)] mod. (including non-max mods)


    Specific shield skins in r8/16 non-inscribable (OldSchool) only NEW! This Applys on Golds and Purples, Blues and Whites are still possible to drop EXCEPT For tyrian skins in purple like Magmas, sws and sss are possible to drop q8 From Keyless chest in Sorrow furnance (Same place can drop Purple q8 crystalline swords)
    - Magmas
    - Stone Summit
    - Summit Warlord
    - Eternal
    - Zodiac
    - Shadow
    NEW! Exalted Aegis, Gloom Shield
    The minimum level of the enemies in the areas these dropped was raised, thereby removing 8/16 as a possible drop for these skins. 9/16 is the lowest these now generate.
    NEW! Same applies to swords and offhands, So Straw Effigys, Zodiac swords, Shadow blades, Vertebreakers are also Nerfed max q8


    Gold Shields
    - Any GOLD shield with a -2/hexed mod. (These only come -3/hexed now)
    - Any GOLD shield with a -1/enchanted or -1/stance mod. (These only come -2 now)
    - Any GOLD shield with a +40/[stance or enchanted] or lower inherent mod.
    - Any GOLD shield with a +8 armour or lower vs damage type mod. For example +8 armour vs slashing
    - Any GOLD shield with a +26hp or lower inherent mod.
    - Any GOLD shield with a non max -5(20%) mod (these only come -5/20 or -5/19% now). For example -4(19%).
    NEW! Any GOLD shield with 55hp/hex or below
    NEW! Any Any Gold Shield with +1attri/18 or lower

    Purple Shields
    - Any PURPLE shield with a +19hp or lower inherent mod.
    - Any PURPLE shield with a +29/[stance or enchanted] or lower inherent mod.
    NEW! Any Purple shield with -3/xx%
    NEW! Any purple shield with +5ar or Below vs someting

    GOLD weapons
    - Any GOLD Non-inscribable weapon with +13%[condition] or lower inherent mod
    - Any GOLD Non-inscribable weapon with +18%[while Hexed] or lower inherrent mod
    - Any GOLD Non-inscribable weapons with +18%[below 50%] or lower inherrent mod

    Purple Weapons
    - Any PURPLE Non-inscribable weapon with +11 or 12%[condition]
    - Any PURPLE Non-inscribable weapon with +xx%/-5 energy, +xx%/-10 armour or +xx%/-1[energy or health] regen
    NEW! - Any PURPLE Non-inscriable weapon with 11-14% While hex or below 50%

    Specific skins regardless of requirement
    - Any GOLD non-inscribable Crystalline sword NEW! (Except so called "Clean" which misses inherent is still possible to drop)
    - Any GOLD Non-inscribable Dwarven Axe NEW! (Except so called "Clean" which misses inherent is still possible to drop)
    - Any GOLD Non-inscribable Dwarven Hammer
    - Any GOLD Non-Inscribable Krytan Axe
    - Any Swamp Club
    - Any Non-inscribable Serpent Axe (Tyrian Skin only) NEW! (Only Any Gold (Except "Clean") or Purple/blue with nerfed dmg mods or requirement are nerfed)
    - Any Fire Staff with the Dead Staff skin only
    - Any Water Staff with the Dead Staff skin only
    - The Henge of Denravi sword - http://guildwiki.gamepedia.com/Denravi_Sword
    NEW! - Henge of Denravi Axe, Bow and Hammer also are Nerfed

    Weapons Mods
    - Any sundering weapon mod of 10/9% or lower (10/10 sword mod is still available)
    - Any weapon mod with +25% damage vs Charr
    NEW ! Vampiric mod 1-2/-1 for sword or axe and 1-3/-1 for hammer or bow
    NEW ! 10/4 Furious or lower


    Runes
    NEW ! -50hp Major runes, all versions
    NEW ! Sup runes with Minor rune icon
    NEW ! Sup runes with Blue color
    NEW ! Sup/Major runes unsalvaged in Blue armor/garb item

    Miscellaneous
    - Any Mixed dyes
    - Jade Wind Orbs
    NEW: - Naga Fangs, Zaishen Medallions, Brick of Mud, Clay Bricks, Olias's resignation letter, Winter Gifts, Dye remover, White Staff Wrappings, Customized Minatures, Festival hats that are Rune/insignia Able

    Other NEW! things:
    Purple inscriable crystalline swords, ANY Max dmg q8 Wands, Any max dmg q8 Hammers, any max dmg q8 Bows, any max dmg q8 Daggers
    any max dmg q8 Axes, Any max energy q7 Offhand, Any max dmg q7 staff, any max dmg q7 wand, 20/20 Wroth's Holy rod

    NEW! Wands & Focus
    Any Gold wand with 18% or lower HSR/HCT mod
    Any Gold wand with +3 Energy
    Any Gold wand with 8% or lower HSR/HCT
    Any Gold wand with 13/-1 or lower
    Any Gold Focus with 18% or lower HSR/HCT
    Any Gold Focus with 8% or lower HSR/HCT
    Any Gold Focus with +8armor or lower
    Any Gold Focus with +1attri/18 or lower
    Any Gold Focus with +26hp or lower
    Any Gold Focus with +40st/ench or lower
    Any Gold Focus with +55/hex or lower
    Any Gold(Or Purple) Focus or Wand with mixed profession mods on single profession skins. (like 20% HCT healing on truncheon, or 1/20 Fire on Jeweled chalice) (doesnt apply on multiprofession skins like paper fan)
    Any PURPLE Focus with a +19hp or lower inherent mod.
    Any PURPLE Focus with a +29/[stance or enchanted] or lower inherent mod.
    Any purple Focus with +5ar or Below vs someting


    -Pleikki

    Edited once, last by Pleikki (May 22, 2017 at 12:51 PM).

    Very nice Pleikki

    Emma, q8 shield and focus I believe still drop.

    Thought on this one: "NEW! - Henge of Denravi Axe, Bow and Hammer also are Nerfed" - These were removed from game. There is no such thing as an HOD Axe anymore. Anet completely removed them from the game. Anyone claiming to have one is lying as far as I know. I believe the same holds for all of these.

    I have to say surge ive seen 55hp axe (Hod) sometime last year orso before guru shut down one was for sale there and also saw it ingame, And Herbalizer does have HoD hammer i know Kabong has wanted for decade

    As far as iknow anet never removed any items from game, to this point they wouldve done it alot more often if it was possible, the only way Anet been able remove items is ban the accounts (dupe incident) and other bugs and glitchs such as mauso and BMP items have staid in game.

    Quote from Pleikki


    I have to say surge ive seen 55hp axe (Hod) sometime last year orso before guru shut down one was for sale there and also saw it ingame, And Herbalizer does have HoD hammer i know Kabong has wanted for decade

    As far as iknow anet never removed any items from game, to this point they wouldve done it alot more often if it was possible, the only way Anet been able remove items is ban the accounts (dupe incident) and other bugs and glitchs such as mauso and BMP items have staid in game.

    1495810599-59065571-hod-fort.png

    but I thought the +25 was nerfed long time ago o.o ? I guess not.

    edit : and what about the hod bow ? anyone still has it ? (longbow q8 13-25 armor 10 inherent)

    Edited once, last by hey (May 26, 2017 at 5:08 PM).

    Quote from MaxBorken


    [font="Hind, sans-serif"]This thread isn't a discussion on what is pre-nerf or not, it's a discussion on the value of stuff....[/font]

    [font="Hind, sans-serif"]The community in general decided upon the definition of pre-nerf several years ago, and I created a thread on the old guru site, and again on Legacy.[/font]
    [font="Hind, sans-serif"]https://guildwarslegacy.com/thread-26.html[/font]

    [font="Hind, sans-serif"]I even asked the question of why it's called pre-nerf, and when it happened, here:[/font]
    [font="Hind, sans-serif"]http://archive.guildwarslegacy.com/14%20Trader's%20Outpost/00026%20When%20did%20the%20great%20prenerf-postnerf%20nerf%20actually%20happen_.001.html[/font]
    [font="Hind, sans-serif"]http://archive.guildwarslegacy.com/14%20Trader's%20Outpost/00026%20When%20did%20the%20great%20prenerf-postnerf%20nerf%20actually%20happen_.002.html[/font]

    [font="Hind, sans-serif"]The price check has been given, this thread will[/font]
    [font="Hind, sans-serif"]Be closed.[/font]

    Let's discuss about that here then :)

    just copy/pasting my last post on the other thread so you know the context (we were talking about undroppable shields and max said undroppable shields are pre-nerf) :
    [font="Hind, sans-serif"]"No they aren't pre-nerf at all, pre-nerf are only for the mods and skills (because they got nerfed... QED). We used to use pre-nerf, at the beginning, only for the mods but over time, people use pre-nerf for weapons (and other stuff) that can't drop anymore but that's not the correct use to name these weapons. Making a shield undroppable has nothing related with a nerf. Simply name it an undroppable shield is more appropriate."[/font]
    [font="Hind, sans-serif"]- end of copy/paste -[/font]

    The community didn't decide upon the definition of pre-nerf in this GWGuru thread, no one was talking about undroppable weapons as pre-nerf before you did, and you're the only one (yes some ppl talk about undroppable weapons, but not as pre-nerf items, or they do but it comes with PRE-NERF mods lol).
    Just check the definition of "nerf" please so you will understand why undroppable weapons aren't. Only mods can be pre-nerf (talking about items only here).

    You just made your own definition, and a bad one.

    Am I the only one thinking that way ? like the correct way huhhh ?

    Edited once, last by kriss (July 24, 2017 at 8:34 PM).

    • Official Post

    This has been talked about time and time again. With regards to the terms pre-nerf and OldSchool. And actually you're right, at the start, pre-nerf did mean exactly what you say it did. And I championed keeping the meaning when the majority of people were (in my opinion) using it wrong.. But over time its definition has changed, with the introduction of inscribable items etc. Like other words have changed their meaning. In the end however, I had to concede that OldSchool meaning anything non-inscribable, and Pre-Nerf meaning anything that couldn't drop any more had become the popularly used terminology, and there was nothing an old fashioned relic like me could do about it.

    So in order to survive, I accepted and embraced it, and here we are.

    You can call it Dave for all it matters. The simple fact is that the general community decided over time (there was no great meeting attended by elders) by its changing use that Pre-Nerf means what it currently does. I didn't decide it, I just applied the commonly used vernacular to it, started collecting it, became a bit of an expert on it, and started a thread or two about it.

    • Official Post

    I also think that once an item cannot drop any more, the chance of it happening again has been 'nerfed'. The date the item was removed from the drop table was the day of the nerf, and anything existing before that date automatically became pre-nerf.

    Quote from MaxBorken


    I also think that once an item cannot drop any more, the chance of it happening again has been 'nerfed'. The date the item was removed from the drop table was the day of the nerf, and anything existing before that date automatically became pre-nerf.

    Update =/= nerf
    became pre/post update not pre/post nerf
    as an example : if they decide to reintroduce undroppable weapons, will you name them post-buff ? xD that's just a non-sense


    As part of this community (guru community), as far as I remember, no one except you name undroppable weapons pre-nerf, maybe I'm wrong. You're right about oldschool but "nerf" is a common word in video games with a specific definition. Oldschool is more a generic word that usually includes any old stuff in video games so of course the definition of oldschool in guild wars evolves because guild wars getting old more and more, QED.