In an effort to expand upon the ever-growing knowledge base surrounding "pre-nerfs," I have put together this list with what is currently known about pre-nerf green (unique) weapons. Please see these other threads for their respective pre-nerf information: Weapons, Shield & Focus, Runes & Miscellaneous. The original thread on this topic (which showcases the initial discussion and some of the earlier findings) can be found here.
"Pre-nerf/Prenerf," usually refers to anything produced in-game before the release of Nightfall and that is also not able to be produced currently or since. There are exceptions and slight variations, of course, and these will be outlined in their respective threads.
As far as pre-nerfs go, green pre-nerfs are a relatively new discovery. Because of that, this list is still very much a work in progress and future updates and/or changes to what is believed to be true can and should be expected to happen. As with other pre-nerf threads, if you can provide proof of something not currently documented here (or proof against something that is), please feel free to contribute.
There are hundreds of different green weapons in the game. I'll start by narrowing it down:
- Prophecies greens (with the exception of Deldrimor Talisman & War In Kryta greens) are all eligible to have a pre-nerf version.
- Factions greens (with the exception of most Amulet of the Mists greens & most Winds Of Change greens) are eligible to have a pre-nerf version.
- No Nightfall pre-nerf greens are currently known or believed to exist.
- No Eye of the North pre-nerf greens are currently known or believed to exist.
Most non-green pre-nerf weapons have a single identifier: their stats.
Because green weapons always come with a pre-set "package," they have a few more things to take into consideration:
- Mod Order
A change in any of these is enough to be pre-nerf. Some greens may only have a change in one, while others show a change in all three.
In addition, some greens may also show different differences for the same item. Yes, you read that right.
While most greens will only have two versions (the pre-nerf and the current/post-nerf), some greens are known or believed to have three versions. This is because there were multiple updates that changed these items at different times (whether this was intentional or more of an unintended byproduct is unknown). For a green weapon to have three versions, it's currently believed that it must:
- Show some kind of mod order change between the versions
- Show some kind of color change between the versions
Because of this, only some green staves from Factions (and Kepkhet's Refuge) are currently thought to have three versions, but other examples may exist.
A breakdown of the differences would look like this:
- Current/post-nerf version: Current stats, mod order, and colors. Able to be dropped in-game still.
- "Original"/pre-nerf/2nd version: These green items will have both a different color and a different mod order when compared to their current/post-nerf counterpart. These dropped from the time of their release until about a month or two before Nightfall.
- Pre-nerf/3rd version: These green items will have the same color as their current counterpart, but the same mod order as the original pre-nerf. These dropped for the last month or two before the release of Nightfall.
A few confirmed examples of all 3 can be found in the list below.
The following is the list of greens currently known to have at least one pre-nerf version confirmed in-game. Please keep in mind that this list is incomplete. Additional entries will be added as they are discovered and confirmed.
CONFIRMED: 180 (44 Prophecies, 136 Factions)
This list is for potential pre-nerfs (those believed to have a pre-nerf version but have not yet been confirmed in-game).
Potential: 13 (0 Prophecies, 13 Factions)
This third chart lists all the remaining Prophecies & Factions greens which are thought to not have a pre-nerf version.
My reasoning for this, along with Oldschool Cool 's explanation for staves, is given here.
Explanation for Staff mod order changes and greens with no suspected prenerfs.
For martial weapons, wands & foci:
- There are none confirmed to exist so far with a mod order change. (Arius' Sai is the strongest candidate to be an exception to this, but seems a one-off.) There is an old screenshot of the Bludgeoner hammer with a different mod order than the current one. However, this screenshot features the outdated 10/10 Sundering mod. Just before Factions, item drop tables were improved to offer higher quality mods. We also have an image from this time period of Gordac's Needle (which had a +3 energy mod and a different mod order) AND a proven Gordac's Needle pre-nerf currently. The pre-nerf has a +5 energy mod, and the same mod order as the current Needle. From this we can conclude that this particular update was retroactive in nature -- affecting all previously-created greens. This leaves only one remaining identifier: color.
- When comparing the following greens to the base skin of the item, we can see no differences. For example: Thorgall's Shield uses the skin of a Tall Shield (which is dyeable, for what it's worth). Comparing Thorgall's to any given undyed Tall Shield shows no differences. There is no precedent in other confirmed pre-nerf greens of a dyed item turning into an undyed item. So, we can conclude that any green martial weapon, wand or focus without a mod order change (all of them, so far) that uses the base/undyed color of that item's skin will not have a pre-nerf version.
"But wait, what about staves?"
- Some staves like Galigord's Stone Staff and Rago's Flame Staff look like they could have a pre-nerf, right? Their current mods/order match those of several pre-nerf staves found in Factions. So why can't we just flip the last two mods and assume they exist? Other SF staves like Willcrusher, Brohn's Staff and Gorrel's Staff all have mod order changes but no color changes (as they use the base skin). So we know mod order changes on SF staves are possible.
- However, The Yakslapper (which has the same mod layout as Rago/Galigord's Staff), has a color change but no mod order change. We know from other pre-nerf staves that a color change will always precede a mod order change. (In the case of +30+30 staves from Factions, it's thought the two 30s simply swap, despite not really appearing different). If The Yakslapper's color change is not forcing a mod order change, then it's reasonable to think that the only other identifier left for these staves is color. And, similar to martial weapons above, these staves are using the default color for their skins, and so no pre-nerf should be possible.
That was super wordy, but I'm not sure how else to explain it. May update in the future.
The following is Oldschool Cool 's explanation for staff changes, pulled from the original discussion thread linked at the top of this post.
"Ok some update on the mod order thing :
When the green staves from Proph and Fact were first dropped most of them had a 20% attribute-specific HSR (very few of them had a 10% global HSR or even no HSR at all but I will talk about those later).
The 25th October 2006 update (corresponding to the Nightfall release) changed all the existing green staves (with the exception of some low level staves from Shing-Jea) :
Example of Kepkhet's Refuge :
Original Staff :
I was only able to find an image in french but you can easily translate it to 20% HSR protection / 20% HCT protection
How to interpret it :
The Original Staff use the same mod order as the Current staff, but the Updated staff use a different mod order. I have been able to find 20+ picture of the Original staves (with attribute specific HSR) and the pattern is always the same. We can conclude that the update that changed the attribute-specific HSR into a global HSR also messed-up the mod order of the affected staves.
Another interesting pattern is to look at how the mod order was affected, once again there is a very clear pattern :
Original Kepkhet : +20% ench // +5e
Updated Kepkhet : +5e // +20% ench
Original Wenlauss' Faith : +30hp // +5e
Updated Wenlauss' Faith : +5e // +30hp
Original Kaolin staves : +1/20% attribute // +30hp
Updated Kaolin staves : +30hp // +1/20% attribute
Original Stonereaper : +1/20% curse // +5e
Updated Stonereaper : +5e // +1/20% cruse
Original Stoneweaver : +20%ench//+5AR
Updated Stoneweaver : +5AR//+20%ench
The Original Staff is always modded : Staff wrap // Staff head
The Updated Staff is always modded : Staff head // Staff wrap
In my opinion the code/script that updated the attribute-specific HSR into a global HSR also had the unintentional side effect to change the mod order of the staves to Staff head // Staff wrap.
How does this help us find other potential prenerfs :
Based on the current pattern we can say that :
* The staves modded Wrap//Head will most likely have a prenerf version modded Head//Wrap
* The staves already modded Head//Wrap or the staves with a duplicate mod (+30hp//+30hp or +5AR//+5AR) most likely won't have a prenerf version with a diff mod order.
|Name||Campaign||Prenerf with a diff mod order|
|Gardock's Staff||Proph||Most likely not|
|Ivor's Staff||Proph||Most likely not|
|Bortak's Bone Staff||Proph||Most likely not|
|Galigord's Stone Staff||Proph||Most likely not|
|Vokur's Staff||Proph||Most likely not|
|The Darkwish||Faction||Most likely not|
|Woe Spreader||Faction||Most likely not|
|Amadis' Air Staff||Faction||Most likely not|
|Bazzr's Staff||Faction||Most likely not|
|Ssyn's Staff||Faction||Most likely not|
|Sulmeng's Staff||Faction - Low lvl||Most likely not|
|Miki's Staff||Faction - Low lvl||Most likely not|
|Tin Dao's Staff||Faction - Low lvl||Most likely not|
|Ssuns' Staff||Faction||Very likely|
|Milefaun's Staff||Faction||Very likely|
|Swiftspell's Staff||Faction||Very likely|
|Talous' Staff||Faction||Very likely|
|Arbor's Earth Staff||Faction||Very likely|
|Kunvie's Air Staff||Faction||Very likely|
Of course nothing is ever simple with Guild Wars, so here is Part 2 : the edge cases !
As I mentioned earlier not all the original staves were using a 20% attribute specific HSR. Some green staves don't have an HSR but instead have a 20% reduce condition (similar to what could happen on prenerf gold staves) :
- Gorrel's Staff
- Brohn's Staff
- Villnar's Staff
Some other staff do have an HSR and are using an Inherent -20% condition duration (similar to what can happen on OS staves) :
- Gardock Staff
- The Yakslapper
- Ivor's staff
Let's take the example of Gorrel Staff :
Original Staff :
From a french website, the picture was uploaded in february 2006 (so before the NF updated).
How to interpret it :
On side note we can notice is the exact wording on the Original staff is different. Before 2006 the "Reduce X condition by 20%" was called "Fast recovery condition X" and in the same way the "+33% X condition duration" was called "Lengthen condition X". All the text were updated and as far as I can tell this didn't impact the greens in anyway.
With the currently known prenerf we can see the following pattern :
Original Gorrel : Inscription // (Head or wrap) // (Head or wrap) // Inherent
Updated Gorrel : Inscription // Inherent // (Head or wrap) // (Head or wrap)
Original Brohn : Inscription // (Head or wrap) // (Head or wrap) // Inherent
Updated Brohn : Inscription // Inherent // (Head or wrap) // (Head or wrap)
Original Willcrusher : HSR // Head // Wrap // Inherent
Updated Willcrusher : HSR // Inherent // Head // Wrap
The following staves have prenerf version with a different color but with no stat change :
* Yakslapper : Inherent//HSR//Head//Wrap
We can make the following guess :
- The HSR update seems to have affected all the staves no matter if they actually had an HSR or not (cf. mod order change on Brohn and Gorrel)
- The Inherent and the HSR (or the inscription for the staves that don't have an HSR) are always displayed before the staff Head and Wrap.
How does this help us find other potential prenerfs :
* Gardock's staff, Ivor's Staff, Villnar's staff and Fleshweaver are unlikely to have a prenerf version with a different mod order"
In addition to the above examples from Oldschool Cool, I have also found the following, either matching or adding to what's said here.
An image of Gorrel's Staff posted to Guru one day after Sorrow's Furnace was added to the game, matching the French example above.
An English image of the original Kepkhet's before the global HSR update, matching the French example above.
Images of Talous' Staff and Orosen's Staff, also before the global HSR update.
Since posting the chart above in the original thread, Woe Spreader, Talous' Staff, Gardock's Staff and Ssyn's Staff have all been confirmed. The mod order change (or lack of) matches what was proposed in the chart.
Until proven otherwise, these do not/should not have a pre-nerf version:
Note: I have been wrong about a few items before. If you have one of the items below and you think it may be different in some way, please let me know and I'll check it out.
|Hammer||The Ice Breaker|
|Hammer||Malinon's Malign Hammer|
|Hammer||Malinon's Skull Crusher|
|Hammer||Thorgall's Stone Smasher|
|Axe||Victo's Battle Axe|
|Bow||Drago's Vampiric Flatbow|
|Bow||Elswyth's Recurve Bow|
|Bow||Gargash's Recurve Bow|
|Bow||Graygore's Zealous Shortbow|
|Bow||Rotwing Recurve Bow|
|Bow||Tarnok's Recurve Bow|
|Bow||Thornbeard's Horned Bow|
|Monk||Wand||Gordac's Holy Rod|
|Wand||Ivor's Smiting Rod|
|Elementalist||Staff||Galigord's Stone Staff|
|Staff||Rago's Flame Staff|
|Focus||Gordac's Hook Blood|
|Multiple||Wand||Wayward Wand - all except:|
|Focus||Straw Effigy (all)|
|Hammer||Gavel of the Nephilim|
|Hammer||Hanjuu's Bludgeoner (low-level)|
|Axe||Cho Wei's Axe (low-level)|
|Shield||Exalted Aegis (all)|
|Bow||Ahvha's Longbow (low-level)|
|Bow||Jin's Hornbow (low-level)|
|Focus||Feng's Focus (low-level)|
|Wand||Auri's Wand (low-level)|
|Necromancer||Wand||The Deathkeeper (low-level)|
|Wand||Yingko's Claw (low-level)|
|Mesmer||Staff||Sulmeng's Staff (low-level)|
|Wand||Baozo's Wand (low-level)|
|Dagger||Ungues of the Oni|
|Dagger||Pei's Blades (low-level)|
|Ritualist||Staff||Tin Dao's Staff (low-level)|
Greens with documented retroactive changes.