Can gold value determine item being prenerf (Discuss!)

yes!

okay let me write a little more:

First:

Something can be prenerf or can not. There´s no room for opinions. It´s like discussing if the something is square or not. There is an easy definition in thise word, which is self-speaking:

pre-nerf = Something from before(=pre) an update, that stopped a thing from happening(=nerf).

Means for drops: a drop that could drop earlier in the game up to a certain point until an update stopped it from being a possible drop - the way the update did fix this is not of importance (e.g. removing keyless chest, changing drop tables directly, changing mobs levels etc.)

Now for the gold value part: today max q8 drops are limited on the top end of value by the gold value range of the requirement. That is the thing that changed with a certain update, that stopped q8 max axes from dropping e.g.: a max dmg axe can drop at lowest at value 36g (now and before that nerf) but what changed is the upper limit for q8: now it is 35g before the nerf it was higher. So identifying an item adds maximum the value of unid item -1 (34g for the upper limit scenario) leading to a max value of todays dropping q8 gold items of 276g (138g for purples respectively) - anything above is pre-nerf. (btw: lowest value of a max weapon has been constant over time (even with the nerf) 132g for foci in gold e.g. 136g gold swords and shields...

If that adds value to it is an entirely different topic - and also not a matter of your opinion, but on market - which in the end is the sum of plenty of opinions, thus you can say what it adds as value for you and the extremum of all those wins Meaning: If you say "Ugh - who cares, why would that matter to anyone" - let me prevent you from posting: it doesn´t matter - since I know, that there is people, who value them slightly higher because of such things.

Like I said in Alliance Chat,

I think gold value absolutely determines an item as "prenerf" and here's why:

When we look for prenerf, we're not doing so because a worse damage mod has any technical value. We're buying simply because they're old., archaic, unique, and remind us of a time gone. High gold value q8s are old and have a visible marker of it, just the same as prenerf unusable mods.

Chevy used the example of a 15^50 Gothic sword being a 15^50 Gothic sword whether it was dropped prenerf or not, but when we say prenerf we are simply saying that an item came into being before weapon rebalancing updates. Odds are that prenerf q8 Gothic is far rarer than one dropped yesterday -- for every one that dropped in the months q8 gothic prenerf was avaiilable, five have probably dropped since.

We may not value high gold items as much as we do weird mods, but they are by all definitions prenerf and should be treated as such. Its the same as how some mods are worth more than others prenerf -- you don't have to pay more because something is a prenerf sword, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be called prenerf.

I'm sry, following that logic, we can't say if an item with low merch value is prenerf or isn't.

Ofc we can say one with high value Has been dropped, but the contrary is fals.

So why would you consider a q8 sword with low merch value less valuable than a high value one, even if the low one was dropped before (with no solid proof, only the owner's word) ?

Imo, considering items prenerf according to their value isn't stupid, but saying they are more valuable than the ones still droppable today is stupid. Since you can't tell when an item droppable nowadays is old or not (know his date of loot*)

EDIT:

Btw ikki, just to answer your question, the easiest way :

Celestial sigils are an example of prenerf dif merch value

I know it's not really a "drop", but still

Quote from jack l eventreur

I'm sry, following that logic, we can't say if an item with low merch value is prenerf or isn't.

Ofc we can say one with high value Has been dropped, but the contrary is fals.

That's it precisely! But what is difference with say a q9 sword with a ^50 dmg mod: for 14/15% we can't know wether or not it dropped before or after the merch only in the lower ranges we can be sure - and those are worth by far more - it's absolutely identical (except that it actually is worse that todays items and still worth far more - compared with our gold value example: functionality is same yet it has a tag that tells "hey, I'm prenerf!" - why would you think this one wouldn't find people who prefer it...?)

Saying: the unfairness you're implying is already existent - how many q9 15^50 swords out there dropped prenerf and are never considered as such?

Quote from MaxBorken

R10 +29 -5/20% crude shields have dropped since the servers were first turned on. And they can still drop today. Some will have dropped since before the great nerfs, and some will have dropped this week. If a gold value range can determine one from the other, then so be it. If there’s is no way to tell, then it cannot be called pre-nerf with any degree of certainty.

It’s about the ones that can be clearly seen to be pre-nerf.

wasn't -3/10 max at first?apart from that: exactly!

Quote from jack l eventreur

I'm sry, following that logic, we can't say if an item with low merch value is prenerf or isn't.

Ofc we can say one with high value Has been dropped, but the contrary is fals.

So why would you consider a q8 sword with low merch value less valuable than a high value one, even if the low one was dropped before (with no solid proof, only the owner's word) ?

Imo, considering items prenerf according to their value isn't stupid, but saying they are more valuable than the ones still droppable today is stupid. Since you can't tell when an item droppable nowadays is old or not (know his date of loot*)

EDIT:

Btw ikki, just to answer your question, the easiest way :

Celestial sigils are an example of prenerf dif merch value

I know it's not really a "drop", but still

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You're actually wrong in the way you're thinking about this. "prenerf" items with low merch value don't matter, in the same way that a regular q10 15^50 FDS has no meaningful value whether it was dropped in 2006 or 2016.

It's specifically the higher value -- not just the age, which we can't prove as you say -- which matters.

Q8 swords, shields, and foci with high merch values can no longer drop. This is a simple fact. Thus, they are pre-nerf. They are impossible to replicate items that ceased dropping long ago. We value weird mods that no longer drop whether they're useful or meaningful in any way, and we should thus at least recognize high gold values as a "prenerf" category of item.

You're making this more complicated than it has to be by asking if we should consider old, but not statistically impossible to replicate items as "prenerf". Not only age is a factor here.

so you are giving more credit to items which have high gold vaule ONLY for that reason, and not because it's an old relic from old times?

let me tell you that i doubt that.

i've seen ppl buying prenerf items, just because these items are prenerf, and don't drop anymore.

Quote from jack l eventreur

so you are giving more credit to items which have high gold vaule ONLY for that reason, and not because it's an old relic from old times?

let me tell you that i doubt that.

i've seen ppl buying prenerf items, just because these items are prenerf, and don't drop anymore.

That's the point -- high gold value are prenerf, and they have evidence of it. They can not be replicated. They are old and unique items, even if not in a stat we generally think of as meaningful(gold value).

I personaly give credit to gold value, I understand your point.

Just saying, since you can't find out if a low merch value item dropped before or after nerf, I think the market value of the items sharing the same skin shouldn't be affected by gold value. Only my personal opinion here.

On the contrary, I'd give more credit to "nice" or "fun" merch value (let's say 400g, or 111g, 168g for q8/16 ar sheilds etc..) which is pure randomness.

Anyway it's all personal preferences I guess

Is there any research on the highest possible gold value of q8 weapons?

Current Day Q8 Max Sword, Shield, and Focus is 276g for gold, and 138g for purples.

Prenerf Q8 max items varied with values higher than 276g just like Q9-Q13 items.

It doesnt really matter the gold value as long as the item is a prenerf.

I see through this. You either want a higher gold valued prenerf to brag to say ooh my pre nerf is older than your pre nerf.

Second reason is just so you can charge more for it/resell since it has a high vs lower gold value. the gold value shouldnt matter as long as its pre nerf

Hmm OST is closer to the right track, but I wouldnt think a 324 gold value is older than like a 286 or would think that would make a price difference. But am curious about the upper limit gold value in general. Is there a weapon 500+ , 600+, higher?

quite honestly I pay a premium for items with the lowest gold value. I put value in max dmg stat weapons being paired with lowest value of everything else, requirement and including gold value. so I like this concept, anything that makes the weapons I want to be less desired to make them more affordable is fine by me