=> This thread is outdated, please refer to the new official thread on prenerf green here : Greens

Click on the spoiler to see the historical thread :

That's a great find, I will add it to the list !

I guess we can see some kind of a pattern with the mixed mod order : it's always the last 2 mod of the staff. So far we have confirmed that the +20% ench can change (Kepkhet, Kyril), the +30 hp (Milius, Illyana, Wenslauss etc) and the +1/20% (Kaolin and now Stonereaper).

That also mean that beyond those already listed, 80% of the green staves from proph or faction may have a prenerf version.

Yep that's a new one for the list ! Thanks Pleikki for letting me check in game.

But don't always trust the English Wiki, sometimes the mod order is just wrong. On Jayne for example the the wiki say : HSR / HCT prot when the real mod order is HCT prot/HSR. For Illyana staff the Wiki list +15 energy when it's in fact +10e +5e.

Your Kaolin is the current version.

Below is one that was dropped a few months ago :

If a prenerf version exist i'm pretty sure the +1/20 prot and the +30hp are in the other order (Like the Kaolin domination staff)

The English wiki isn't reliable when it comes to the HCT/HSR order, you can try to use the german wiki that has screenshot instead of text. For example german Galigord stone staff.

Vielen Dank German Wiki !

As I said in my previous post the German Wiki is the only one that provide screenshots of green items, and another good thing about the Wiki is that you can access all the previous version of a picture (here for example) !

Thanks to that I have been able to find a ton of new prenerf green staves. As all those screenshots have a baseline 20% HSR, we can confirm they actually still exist in the game.

This confirm my suspicion that almost all the proph and faction staves have a pernerf version with mixed order (with some exception like the staves that lack and HSR or some stat combo like +5AR +5AR or +30hp +30hp). I will soon update my main post with the new staves.

Quote from Mr. Clean(-Value)

Another kephket. Same but diffrent. It is Pre-nerf mod order on Post-nerf Color ?!

Some one else has a explanation for that or a similar one ?

Oldschool Cool and me have no idea on it where/when and how it comes from

Not gonna lie you threw me a curved ball with this one.

We know that the 25th october 2006 update (wiki link) introduced the new dye system and updated the green staves to give them a global 20% HSR instead of an attribute specific HSR.

My theory was very simple :

- All the greens dropped before the update were using the old dye system, and all the green dropped after the update are using the new dye system. In some case the new green have a slightly darker color than the old green. (Cf Zarnas' Wrath, Tahkayun/Chkkr, Handsmasher, Stonereaper etc)

- When the existing green staves got updated to give them a global 20% HSR, the update somehow changed the mod order on the 2 bottom rows. Most of the staves were affected except those with duplicated mods (+5AR +5AR and +30 HP + 30 HP).

In some case the HSR was updated on the new drops but not on the existing staves (Cf Ziinjuu's Sanctuary and mosty likely Sanhan's Staff).

Edit : Some new addition from Unholy, turns out my theory was wrong.

Now I don't know what to make of your Kephket... all the prenerf staves should have both a prenerf color and a prenerf mod order.

There is only one possible explanation : the color change happened prior to the HSR change and your Kephket dropped in the interval in between the two :

* Maybe the color of the green items was changed before the official introduction of the new dye system. For example during the nightfall world preview event in september 2006 ?).

* Maybe the october 2006 update only affected the newly dropped staves and the HSR was changed on the existing staves during a later (and undocumented) update.

Thanks for your contribution Cosyfiep, that's one more to add to the confirmed list !

I checked mine and it turns out that the 2 random one I bought from Kama were using the prenerf color. I even farmed one myself right now to confirm that the current color is indeed different.

Thanks a lot Unholy, I added Brohn and Gorrel to the list. We now have a total of 28 confirmed prenerf greens

Those 2 staves also disprove my previous theory.

I thought that the different mod order came from the 25th october 2006 update that changed 20% attribute specific HSR to a 20% global HSR. But those 2 staves... don't have an HSR, were never affected by that update and still have a different mod order !

I also did some digging on the german wiki and was able to find this. It's screenshot of a Brohn's staff with the current mod order that was uploaded to the wiki on the 23th August 2006 !

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The Brohn's/Gorrel's I've got have been around a hot minute then. Are you thinking other HSR prenerfs are from earlier as well now?

Who knows at this point ? Maybe different green were changed at different time, maybe both version dropped during a certain time frame ?

Praise Also suggested that maybe the introduction of new green (like the TopK) had an influence on the old green.

Quote from Unholy

Also, something that came to mind recently...forgotten fans. Once upon a time, I remember hearing/reading that there were two different colors. I want to say I used to own a version of each, but if I did, that was many years ago. I don't know if the mod order was different from one color to another, but it was like a lighter or darker version of the previous color.

The English wiki images would suggest that was the case as well, but could just be different lighting idk.

Hum that's an interesting one. Yeah the image on the wiki seems to suggest 2 different color (you can also see it here) and that would fit the pattern with the current version being way darker than the prenerf one. I will add it to the list of possible prenerf !

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Not sure if there were ever varying colors to the frozen and tattered fans, but I think frozen fans/icebreakers were added with the same update as forgotten fans/totem axes, so could be?

Maybe for the frozen fan but the difference is less obvious on the wiki image (here). As for the martial weapon there are very few color change, especially when they have a basic color like the totem axe or the icebreaker.

Quote from Ostona

Maybe it's time to add them? I've been updating the wiki with high resolution images since a few months ago but I never added screenshots of the description for unique items because I didn't know if it was allowed, I'm going to ask if we can do it like in the German Wiki and if they give permission I will start doing it as secondary task.

That would be an amazing idea. I have quite a few green in my collection PM me if you need some screenshots.

Time to do a big update.

Update to the presentation :

* For the confirmed green : Added a new column called IG, to differentiate between the item that have been confirmed In Game (IG) or confirmed based on screenshot alone.

* For the potential green : Added a new column called Confidence, to indicate the chance that a prenerf green does exist

New confirmed prenerf green :

* Stoneweaver. The green was already confirmed based on German screenshot but thanks to Unholy we were able to confirm it in game and see the color difference. The German picture were replaced by Unholy pictures.

* Ogre Slaying Knife. Confirmed thanks to Unholy.

* Forgotten Fan. I was able to find a prenerf one in game, the item has been moved from potential to confirmed. Different inventory icon and different in game model (sceenshot below)

* Vera. Color change confirmed by Unholy. Even if the difference isn’t very obvious on the picture it does exist. It’s easier to see it while switching between the two versions in game.

* Arius’Sai. New one that I just found. The current in game version is different from the german wiki screenshots. This item is the first confirmed prenerf martial with a different mod order !

New potential prenerf greens.

In light of the recent new additions I have double checked all the prophecies martial weapons, wands and focus, comparing their screenshot between the 3 wiki (official/unofficial/german) and 2 old french fan site.

The very tedious work wasn’t for nothing and I was able to identify more than 10 new potential prenerf greens. Here are the most interesting one :

* Shreader's Talons (extremely likely, the german wiki even mention that there exist one with a different color).

* Razorfang's Claws (very likely based on the screenshots), skin similar to Chkkr and Shreader

* The Soulstone

* The Stonehart

* The Brimstone

* Rago's Flame Wand

New patterns :

All those new additions gave us a better understanding of the different prenerf green patterns :

* The addition of Arius’Sai is opening a whole new category. It’s the very first confirmed prenerf martial (dagger) with a different mod order.

* The addition of the ogre slaying knofe and the forgotten fan show that all the focus that aren’t using the default could potentially have a prenerf version with a different color.

* The addition of Vera (confirmed) and Shreader's Talons (potential) show that all the martial weapons that aren’t using the default color could potentially have a prenerf version with a different color.

* The pre-nerf=lighter and post-nerf=darker rule hold true for the vast majority of the greens (Vera is the small exception).

* By looking at some very old screenshot (early 2006) we were able to find some 2 greens with different inventory icons (Ogre slaying knofe and Flint Artifact). The current icon are the regular undyed icon of their associated skin (grim cesta and water artifact respectively) while the old one were closer to the color of their in game model.

Last but not least, I would like to thanks all the people that have contributed to this thread, keep on the good work !

Ostona I added Snapjaw and Bizzr to the potentiel prenerf list. I also farmed Bizzr my self and I can confrim that it's the version you have.

Unholy I have added Lians to the confirmed list.

Aslo 2 new confirmed prenerf that I was able to find :

* The time eater

*Strongroot's Shelter. This one is interesting, it's the first confirmed shield with a different color and a different inventory icon. And it doesn't fit the pattern as the prenerf version has a darker/deeper color.