Sale of botted items on Legacy

Quote from Purely

Enter "Suspected Botter" then disable them from changing it until they've given sufficient evidence that they are in fact not botting.

How exactly would you prove that you are not doing something?

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About the whole debate, I know I'm beating a dead horse (probably not alone in that ), I would shift a lot more blame on Anet for just not doing much/enough/anything about botting. The fact that they let it happen just encourages it more, so it's not surprising to see it. Sure I don't expect active development on GW, but they could have an intern ban the bots as a little regular task like washing dishes. I know they obviously don't care but i think they absolutely should. The game still generates money (however little it may be), it is linked to the game they do still care about and also GW is kinda like Anet's WoW Classic. I would make the uneducated guess that now, over 10 years past the release of GW2, Guild Wars is past its all-time low of active players. Gaming in general got so shit over the last decade or longer, GW with its pure and oldschool feeling is actually refreshing. Another thing is that if Anet banned bots, it could/would have a positive effect on how GW is perceived and show that they care.

The 'dead game' argument, while I do understand where it's coming from, is bad both coming from Anet and players on here. The fact that people still play the game and care enough to post here means that it isn't dead (call me overly idealistic idc). The other thing about it is that it promotes this defeatist attitude that can ultimately be interpreted in a way that makes botting look ok, since 'it's just a dead game anyway'.

The 'the economy depends on bots' argument I think is really dumb and a non-argument: In the current economy with all the bots, yes, obviously they are a very big part of it. If we now imagine a hypothetical GW without bots they would just not be a part of it. The economy would be different and players would adapt. Simple as that. Also, like the 'dead game' argument, this one also makes an excuse for bots.

Quote from trademeimfamous

How exactly would you prove that you are not doing something?

well, Peter Kadar has the answer!

Upload 10h+ Farm videos on youtube, livestream etc.

And guess how the game generates the most money: by accounts who are sold to botters. Nobody would need >>8 accs who doesnt bot (well except of some hardcore collecting individuals maybe).

Quote from Hate Core

And guess how the game generates the most money: by accounts who are sold to botters. Nobody would need >>8 accs who doesnt bot (well except of some hardcore collecting individuals maybe).

they'd make even more money if they banned those accounts though. either botters give them more money for new accounts or there are fewer botters - ez win-win

Quote from Iaerah

And that last one is where it becomes difficult: upon a re-evaluation, we are required to provide the proof as well. It's just like back in the day when ArenaNet banned users depending on what processes ran on their computers; due to a GDPR request, ArenaNet had to give the proof upon which basis the users were banned. And this makes it difficult.

As always, I appreciate the candid response, but explain to us why you (GWL) haven't taken alternative actions to label suspected individuals as such? You can always remove the "suspected" label once they've quelled suspicion. Or does something like this also require a burden of proof? Also, why can you not just ban them and wait for the re-evaluation request to reinstate the person? I understand this sounds like a headache. I'm only asking for the sake of discussion / understanding.

Edit: To explain further, the point of a ban followed by a re-evaluation request strategy, in my opinion, would possibly result in the users giving up before even sending the request for evaluation. Sure, some might, but I doubt they all would. Who knows.

Quote from ObsidiaN

Dadan question. If I was to sell my 212 os goths would that thread get banned under looking like a bot? There is a lot of people that could make 500+ item threads so interested how your going to determine who’s a botter and not.

Edit. For the record I don’t support bots however they do provide their own slice of the game no one with a life can replicate so buying goods from them I don’t see a issue as such. Also on that note you will find ethers thread had little to no items sell with so many bids due to them wanting way too much. So good luck to them and the storage accounts full of perfect q9s.

2 years after I made this post, I still see it no different to then however I guess I seem to fund/fuel them more since I buy what they farm

Infact if it wasn't for botters I wouldn't have been able to collect the 800 dual mod guardians I currently have, but back to policing the matter if I listed 800 guardians then I would be suspected of botting??

I enjoy seeing people fill the towns of the game other then the shitty textured lack of scenery Kamadan, even if those people are the same people zoning every 1-5 mins

in short its 2023 who cares if someone bots or doesn't and if you do care, then good luck trying to farm for the next 40 years to achieve what a bot army can do in 3 months to then sell it here for botted armbraces

Couldnt agree more, people who bot are also just human and loving mothers/fathers, wifes/husbands with a family to feed. So, show some mercy please for this rare species that makes gw look alive. Lets play in peace and harmony together, enjoy this great game. As we live and collaborate in the real world more and more together with robots and AIs, we should also accept that these species are now a part of gw. So next time you see a bot, you might give it (m/f/d) a hug instead of using /report. Because it could be the one innocent friend & helper that is so passionate about finding the missing peace of your lovely collection!

Quote from Iaerah

I absolutely still care, but the same points still apply and are very hard to tackle for us, unfortunately.

How can we know that something is botted and how can we know that something is not botted? How can we be certain?

The issue lies that if we are going to police this, we would need to have solid evidence of it, which is hard to collect for us since we do not have the in game logs or information. In GW2, you'd be able to walk around and see the bots, but in this game it's impossible to do so.

ArenaNet is in fact the one that should be policing this, not us. They aren't, and that forces us in an uncomfortable position: how can we be certain if something is gained from botting or not? What proof/evidence do we have?

If someone bots on Twitch and we see those identically same items listed for sale here, that is indeed solid proof. But if someone that we ban as a cheater comes to me and requests me the proof on which grounds the ban has been given, I need to be able to provide that.

It's like instead of calling the police and deal with issues, taking justice in our own hands. And that just never ends well.
Even though the case here is a bit different as the police is just never coming... it's though.

Display More

What do you mean howw can you know ?

You want us to make a list with PM's of them admitting to be reselling botted items ?

When someone is selling 200 echovalds or another guy is literally just spamming the forum with Q8 celestial shields, swords or another one is selling only Q8 gold items from NF that were thought to be almost unobtainable 1 year ago...

😂 200 echovalds

Quote from bsoltan

Any other ideas?

I think what we need is some transparency and thus I would like to introduce the Official Guildwarslegacy.com Self Report Template.

I consider it as the ultimate tool missing and there are many shy botters out there who cant wait to use it to transparently share their status with the beloved community!

The template could be provided by guildwarslegacy.com and provide the following information, find example below:

"Hereby I [Forum name] confirm the following:

- Amount of accounts used for the purpose of botting:

- Type of bots currently used:

- Type of bots used in the past:

- Preferred district for botting*:

- Average hours of botting a day*:

- % of botted items in Selling-thread*:

- Estimated rough order of magnitute of revenue with botted items per month*:

- Highest value of botted items sold on gwelegacy*:

* are optional fields.

With above statement I, [Forum name] hope to provide more transparency and help the guildwarslegacy.com community to become better every day."

If not understandable, I would provide the service to fill out a theoretic (of course) example to show everyone how it is done.

Most of you complain about bots, but are more than happy to bid when there is something "unique" that pops up on the site.

Please "farm" some demon shields that I'm missing for my collection (link to my WTB in my signature).

What's the next step ? Let people know that some people spend hundreds of $ per year buying arms ?

(you = guild wars legacy users)

Hereby I Lo Rijiin confirm the following:

- Amount of accounts used for the purpose of botting: Too many to stand on one IP address

- Type of bots currently used: Pve rules the World 😎 / Pvp is just a filthy pit of shitty bots 🤮

- Type of bots used in the past: The crappy ones for free on ElitePvpers (don't pm for a link, ask Google instead or ChatGPT 😉)

- Preferred district for botting*: The one where San was naively believing that it was it's most well kept secret 🤣

- Average hours of botting a day*: 24/7

- % of botted items in Selling-thread*: 2500%

- Estimated rough order of magnitute of revenue with botted items per month*: Depend of cocky / self congratulating / RMT collectors that are flooding botters with stacks of arms

- Highest value of botted items sold on gwlegacy*: You don't want to know

With above statement I, Lo Rijiin hope to provide more transparency and help the guildwarslegacy.com community to become better every day.

Will it be my last message on Legacy ?

The debate is going in circles.

In the end, not buying weapons, etc. and being content, as in Ironman mode, to take only your own drops and to be content with luck is the only rebellion solution you can invoke.

This is what i just applied by closing my last WTB/WTS topics on Legacy.

Now on, if i drop something "exceptional" i will make a trade with friends and not a sale. This will remain an exception, considering the number of them i drop.

It is now too late to be clever with very rare elements in the game. Much too late.

I just want to say how incredible it seems now that everyone has OS matching 20/20 wands. I remember those wands being so rare I barely ever saw them back in the day. I think I could probably count on two hands how many I saw in like 5 years. Now everyone has one or multiple.

I shake my head.