Economy Discussion

1st Official Post

    Prices fluctuate so wildly from one day to the next, it's easy to see that it's all a big joke. Between those who try to accommodate people with lower prices. Who then have to be the same ones selling at way too high a price.

    Probably people who don't know how to use their instruments IRL. That's got to turn them on a bit.

    In the end, between hacks and virtual inflation (kamadan trade chat), it seems that they're only interested in converting to real money. Pathetic, considering all the other money-making possibilities IRL. They're a bunch of small-time gamblers. They're playing with marbles.

    Quote from Speed Clear Ele
    Quote from lem0nhaz3

    Is Guild Wars going to die soon? Legacy is like dead comparing to last year.

    Hopefully yes, most left on this forum are clapping for botted items because they, themselves, bot.

    Guild Wars died a long time ago. Since the exodus to Guild Wars 2 (~2012), robots have taken over the game and its economy. And no, there'll never be any going back.

    Now there are still a few non-robot players who don't buy items for IRL money, and a lot of hypocrites. And yes, for a little over a year now it has deteriorated considerably, the prices is just no sense.

    Quote from Mango
    Display Spoiler

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    Yes, but no.

    To represent the invasion of robots in GW, you don't have to portray robots as beings superior in size and strength to small humans. In fact, the opposite is true. You'd have to illustrate humans trying to crush little shits like ants. Because robots compared to humans are little shits in both form and content. And no matter how much we trample them, they come back to invade us en masse. The scale of the illustration would then be more accurate.

    as far as I see its several reasons why gw economy is going/has gone downhill.

    The game has been dead since gw2 came,even when I came back in 2015 it has changed so much, even then the prices were so insane high.
    Now the prices are just insane, people go around selling white q7 and q8 for from 250e - over 1000e. People are desperate to buying anything regarding q8 in any inherent mod like hex, 20 below 50.
    People only care about themselves, hoarding several versions of the same q8 items, doing stupid collections of every staff,hammer,wand,axe,sword,bows,daggers skin available
    Prices are so insane high to even buy a regular q8 15^50 weapon with a common skin, I have strongly considered stopping to continue to collect a few years now. and I mostly dont care much about gw anymore. Even when some interesting stuff comes out, powertraders wants an insane amount for it.
    Botters is a real problem, there will always be people who buy stuff from them, but without the botters the game would be even more dead and the economy would have been 20x worse than it is.

    And I would not care if I find a botted os item that I want, I would still buy it.

    99% of gwl is filled with toxic people that is leeching and exploiting anything and everything, people look to make a back anyhow they can. All this clean value bullshitt with 200,300,400 gv value. Then the sellers wants to exploit those very few buyers. So the result is that now everyone wants extra ectos/arms for a clean value os item.


    at this point I dont have any love left for gw, the community and the players greed has destroyed this over several years. I rarely log in anymore or want to log in. I very rarely even check out WTS items I want, even if my some miracle that there items I would want people buy it for themselves and offer me to buy it for an obscene amount or they want anything from 250a - 500a. This happened to me so many times over the years I really come to hate certain players in gw.

    Quote from OS T

    but without the botters the game would be even more dead and the economy would have been 20x worse than it is.

    (X) - Doubt

    Quote from OS T

    All this clean value bullshitt with 200,300,400 gv value. Then the sellers wants to exploit those very few buyers. So the result is that now everyone wants extra ectos/arms for a clean value os item.

    when so many OS items are botted and therefore less valuable, the clean gv is that nice extra factor that just makes them that much rarer and thus more desirable. And people unfortunately can't ignore the inflation that's going on around them and want more money for their items too.

    I do see the huge inflation and agree that it's bad, lots of items are like 100x than what they were in 2016 when i left, not exaggerating. However the items affected by that are mostly just pre-nerf and the select most desirable stuff of what can still drop. I find that compared to the upper extreme levels of items, that perfect dualmod OS shields are actually rather cheap. Similar prices like in 2016 but in today's much devalued currency.

    Verdammter Choleriker lässt Folgendes fallen: Verfluchter Stab.

    It's understandable that you're facing some frustration in Guild Wars due to the inflation and changes in the item economy. However, it's crucial to understand that economies within games, much like real-world economies, are subject to shifts and changes over time. Ultimately, while it's natural to feel frustrated by changes in the game's economy, it's also an opportunity for players to adapt and innovate.

    Here are a few points you might consider:

    Market Dynamics: The value of items in the game, just like in real life, is determined by supply and demand. As the player base changes and the availability of certain items fluctuates, so does their value. This isn't necessarily a sign of greed but rather a reflection of the changing dynamics within the game.

    Adaptation: In any environment, including a virtual one, adaptation is key. As the economy within the game evolves, players need to adjust their strategies and expectations accordingly. While it might be frustrating to see prices rise, it's also an opportunity to rethink how to approach trading and acquiring items.

    Patience and Persistence: It's important for players to exercise patience and persistence when navigating the game economy. Prices and availability of items may fluctuate over time, and opportunities to acquire desired items at more reasonable prices may arise with patience and careful observation of market trends.

    Focus on Enjoyment of the Game: Ultimately, the primary goal of playing a video game should be to have fun and enjoy the experience. While in-game economic considerations are a part of many games, they should not overshadow the enjoyment of gameplay itself. Focusing on aspects of the game beyond the economy, such as exploration, questing, or social interaction, can help mitigate the impact of power traders on the overall gaming experience.

    Quote from Ecto Sacrifice

    Focus on Enjoyment of the Game: Ultimately, the primary goal of playing a video game should be to have fun and enjoy the experience. While in-game economic considerations are a part of many games, they should not overshadow the enjoyment of gameplay itself. Focusing on aspects of the game beyond the economy, such as exploration, questing, or social interaction, can help mitigate the impact of power traders on the overall gaming experience.

    This.

    The purpose of the game should be to have fun. If you dont enjoy the game anymore and are only focused a 100% on the economy youre already lost. Because your greed will never make you happy, as you never will be satisfied with what you have. Once you buy a very nice item, youre happy for a short period, but then you go for the next. There is no ending in it. In a case where you play the game a 100% economy related you should ask yourself if your lifetime wouldnt be better invested in pursueing IRL in a career and RMT. No offense, take it as a friendly advice not as hate.

    I enjoy playing the game in an active guild, doing some scs, sometimes casual PvE, hanging out on discord with many people and still being interested in the economic aspects. And I can tell you: it is fun! This year I met my guild leader IRL and we went out for dinner and partying. The social aspect and the interaction with people from different countries, cultures, education, professional backgrounds etc. is what I like the most and not spending time in Kamadan to hunt for a few a (translate it to $/€ and you see how much waste of a time it is).

    Quote from OS T
    Quote from Purely

    You've done this to me as well. Welcome to the 99%.

    You sure you want to do this in a forum?

    Yet you're the one who started out in this direction, calling 99% of players "#@°&". :/

    I understand market dynamics in a game as well,but the problem here is that its not fluctuation. Every year the prices on OS q8 and q7 increases exponentially it seems. The prices are not going back down on such items. And because there are so many people buying OS q8 and q7 people can also ask what they want. But its also a side problem and that is people have quit the game some time ago and rares are on inactive accounts. People just wants to hoard q7 and q8 gold items for themselves. People almost not never selling a q8 weapon unless they know certain people will spend insane amounts of armbraces on it.

    Adaption - sure is needed in any virtual game. You can bott and make accounts and let them run days and days and get fiilthy rich that day. You can buy arms for real life money. You can accumulate wealth over time or powertrade. Its just the prices for any rare q7 and q8 is so high so if you want to buy expensive stuff you really are going broke, unless you have a os item buffer or just insanely rich from before.


    patience and persistance - I have been collecting myself for many years, prices are never going down, only up. So when a item I want surfaces and is listed for sale. It again, comes down to your wealth and people you know.

    I agree on the last point mostly. I have done pretty much everything in gw, pvp I cant get back into since guarded by bots so only people owning the bots can kick you. gvg is another thing. Social interaction died when Anet introduced 3 heroes, then came gw2, then later 6 heros. Now people prefer heroes before playing with human players. Everything in groups is speedclear and the use of pcons is nonstop. Over the years ive been in guilds, its mostly dead in chat or AC, not much conversation. There is only certain things left for me to do and accomplish.


    This is how I see things are now and in the last 10+ years

    Quote from Neutral_CH
    Quote from OS T

    You sure you want to do this in a forum?

    Yet you're the one who started out in this direction, calling 99% of players "#@°&". :/

    and?

    I'm just stating how I experience some many people on gwl or people in game.

    how am I wrong for saying 99% of people exploit gw and are really greedy. This isnt something is new. I can honestly say I'm one of them on certain os items


    okay,maybee 99% was a little harsh,but majority IS. We all want the most out of what we sell, but many people just wants an exorbant amount of arms for many things

    Quote from manuS

    If youre not botting you will hardly be able to compete in this economy.


    Im just glad that there is stuff that is hard to be botted. Like GoTT.

    yes,excactly.and that is one of the problems thats have been in gw for several years now,but its also needed or else nothing would have been for sale. Yet people clearly is botting,I'm not saying everyone. But you can see the amount of arms they are offering for anything rare in gw. They act like its nothing. Same is for those who buy for real life money. People shun it here on gwl,but its happening every day and everyone is just ignoring it

    In the beginning of gw economy wasnt like this,people bought stuff and sold them and did not hoard stuff, PUGS existed. Most were friendly. Its quite the opposite now,except friendly. Most people are friendly and helpful in gw.

    Many players are not 99%. 99% would come from a calculation. In short, you have no idea. Many players don't go to Legacy or any other dedicated forum, they're not visible.


    If you're one of those you're criticizing, then your comments are ridiculous. Instead of trying to outbid us, you'd do better to give up this path and admit you're wrong.


    And if in a game, without bots, you couldn't keep up with the economy. Wouldn't it make more sense to stop playing? Why bother with a corpse? It's a question of hindsight. If you're addicted to video games, that's another story.

    I did edit my above post and saying 99% was harsh,but there are still many people who are exploiting everything and are greedy on gwl. I have had interactions with many people on gwl and I have quietly read what people are saying on forum,and their beloved collection. People have like 3 or 4 of the same item in certain req and inherint mods. They hoard for themselves and dont care for anyone else.

    There is impossible to outbid anyone on rare items here on gwl unless you are super insane rich. And why would I admit I'm wrong about my talking points, I could be admitting perhaps that 99% is a stretch,but everything else I stand for,but that is still the reality when it comes to gw economy and the community. and I do mean greed and exploitation of this game.

    Quote from OS T
    Quote from Purely

    You've done this to me as well. Welcome to the 99%.

    You sure you want to do this in a forum?

    I am humbly welcoming you to the “whatever” % your faulty calculations come up with.

    Quote from OS T

    I have done pretty much everything in gw, pvp I cant get back into since guarded by bots so only people owning the bots can kick you. gvg is another thing. Social interaction died when Anet introduced 3 heroes, then came gw2, then later 6 heros.

    Tell us more about how you don’t play and have no clue what you’re talking about. As far as I can tell, all you do is log in to look at your collection, check out the market, and bitch on a forum about it. If you have this many issues, just quit or learn to adapt to a dying game. No one is forcing you to be miserable.

    Quote from Purely
    Quote from OS T

    You sure you want to do this in a forum?

    I am humbly welcoming you to the “whatever” % your faulty calculations come up with.

    Quote from OS T

    I have done pretty much everything in gw, pvp I cant get back into since guarded by bots so only people owning the bots can kick you. gvg is another thing. Social interaction died when Anet introduced 3 heroes, then came gw2, then later 6 heros.

    Tell us more about how you don’t play and have no clue what you’re talking about. As far as I can tell, all you do is log in to look at your collection, check out the market, and bitch on a forum about it. If you have this many issues, just quit or learn to adapt to a dying game. No one is forcing you to be miserable.

    yeah, I dont literally mean 99% of gw is exploiting and leeching,but majority of players do. Ofcourse its a fictional %,but so many people are still doing it. Its impossible to get a certain % in gw, as most people wont admit to it.

    keep telling yourself that, I just log in to look at my collection, you are right I do check out prices on ectos and armbraces whenever I'm logged in. I also feel like I dont bitch on gwl much. I'm not the only who bitch about the current state of gw from time to time. If people will write something on a forum about the state of gw, they should.

    You are right there, no one is forcing me to play or do anything gw related,but I'm also stating how gw is in 2024 and how people are. But I guess there will always be people like that in MMO/dying games.

    and I only have a few things left to do in gw and perhaps then I will just quit. The only thing that kept me login in was finishing my gwamm on my mesmer, getting z12 and work towards my monk collection. But like 1.5y ago I saw that its almost impossible, even though I got a few new ones. Now collecting q8 monk stuff or certain q9 items is almost impossible for me.

    Quote from OS T

    yeah, I dont literally mean 99% of gw is exploiting and leeching,but majority of players do. Ofcourse its a fictional %,but so many people are still doing it.

    I think things should be put in perspective. In my opinion the way things happen in GW may reflect (to a degree) how things happen in real life. There are various socio-economic layers, interests, needs or ideals. And your interaction with the society and your experiences will be determent by your "belonging" to a specific social group. Or you wanting to belong to a specific group. There is much more can be said about it, but you get the point.

    And so to move along the analogy, if for example your goal is to make a collection of old classic cars or other high value products, like Hermes bags, you both will require the means for it, but you also will be interacting with certain people who also have the means or similar interests. That's all fine and is your choice, but it also means that since you will be interacting more than usual with a specific group of people, it will inadvertently influence and skew your perception if you will chose to apply your experiences with this particular group to the rest of the society at large.

    Coming back to the game. So you have a specific layer of people who buy or sell high quality or rare items. They are like the 1% in real life. They have everything they want, and they can determine how much it will cost. In the game their percentage is much higher than 1%, but the same principle applies. They are in control and you can either play their game or not. It doesn't mean that you can't enjoy the game. Even with botters. A casual player who never trades or collects may never interact with such people, or need their "services" or items and what not. And so their experiences and perception of the GW society will be different.

    One may say that the economy still sucks and now everything is so pricey that newbies may have a hard time affording basic weapons or runes for their heroes. Well, that's also not entirely true. If these newbies would communicate with their guildies or elsewhere, they would get information that it's enough to collect Nick items for couple of weeks and then sell them to get enough funds to cover all their basic needs. That's it. And then you can just go on, enoy the game and interact with other players who have similar interests. And there are many players like this. I don't know exactly how much, but enough to simply play and enjoy.

    It means that the idea of "GW economy is deeply broken" or "most of the players are as******" depends on what you plan on doing and with what kind of people you will be interacting as a result. It may suck, but that's how it is, either in real or ingame life. It may be frustrating, but another thing to ask you is why would you want to collect specifically q8 or q7 items? Probably because it is rare and because having it provides you with a certain status. Well, that's exactly like collecting old classic cars. By interacting with this specific socio-economic layer you are in a way agreeing to the rules of the game. If you love collecting, there are many other ways to collect without communicating at all with the "greedy and exploiting". it just that it probably won't be that prestigious. fwiw.

    It really isnt about "market dynamics" its about inflation. You have to realize, that in 2010 people actually played the game and still improved for normal upgrades for normal gameplay. Back then also a small part of community were into "real" money making pve like Speedclears and stuff. Not even mentioning botting that was in a complete different dimension (way smaller obv). With the possibility of learning new stuff that came threw several players that made huge posts in forums and even youtube videos how to make money, speedclear and other stuff and the addition of nick gifts and zaishen quests, people aquired a new way to make money, while they capped out on the equipping of non luxury items on their characters.

    Since then more than a decade has passed, in which people could do all kinds of things to aquire gold, be it through normal playing of f.e making several gwamm characters, playing speedclears for fun or doing their weekly quests. So the amount of wealth a normal player nowadays has is way more than back in the day. Guild Wars lacks a gold sink, so where does that gold go? Prenerf items, weapons with unique skins, rare minipets - all that looks good and it is nice to show of, so obviously way more people are looking for stuff like that. And of those way more people, many have no idea how rare or not rare those items are. Thats the reason even bad mod q8 items achieve way higher prices than back in the days.

    The thing is, you cant expect that you will always be able to buy every single item you want for your list if you dont work for it. You mightve been rich years ago, but with such a high inflation rate only consumables and non obtainable items will be able to preserve their value.

    Btw. botters obviously take their fair share in Inflation. I dont bot myself and i dont defend botters, but the state of the market is quite a normal shape.

    So Concluding:

    • Inflation made Currency inflate -> 1a isnt worth nearly as much as in 2012 -> prices increase
    • More People have money to spend -> more competition -> prices increase (through botting, normal playing, trading)

    well,in 2010 GW2 was already out and many players shifted to the new game. The more correct year where people played normally would be from 2005-2008 or 2009 where heros are cons/pcons werent used for anything or to a small degree/certain places and where players didnt use only metabuilds. For several years, people have become so lazy they have to use a conset and several pcons in order to vanquish a area or do missions.
    and back when gwguru was still around, people still was actively searching for pre nerfs and they were much more in abundance than they are today due to several reasons, like customizing,inactive accounts, collecting. But as you said due to inflation and demand the lack of circulating high end items prices have skyrockets for several years.

    "The thing is, you cant expect that you will always be able to buy every single item you want for your list if you dont work for it. You mightve been rich years ago, but with such a high inflation rate only consumables and non obtainable items will be able to preserve their value."
    obv, you wont get the things you want unless you work for it, i.e spamming,asking people you know, pming people on gwuru and on gwl nowadays. But there are certain holy grails that you will never find even if you spam for several years. And it comes down to how much money you are prepared to pay for.
    For me to be able stay rich these days I would have to spend thousands of dollars for ing currency/ doing alot of bott farming with many accounts. If that is the only way to stay competitive among the rich players I rather not collect os stuff anymore.

    Your title is Economy Discussion and then your question is "Is Guild Wars going to die soon? Legacy is like dead comparing to last year." That seems like two separate topics, or maybe even three.

    1. This is what happens to the economy because of botting and real money traders. Most people are okay with it. It's the reality we live in and must learn how to adapt to it or quit the game (or at least that economical aspect of the game - it's perfectly fine to play the game without participating in the high-end economy). Adapting to it doesn't necessarily mean joining them, but watching price trends and making good long-term decisions. Even then, it's impossible to keep up with what the bots and real money traders are able to do, but as I said it's the game we now live in, and as long as people are willing to buy items from botters for real money, that aspect of the economy will thrive.

    2. We don't know the answer to if Guild Wars is going to die. Everquest just passed it's 25th year anniversary this year. I believe as long as the servers are up Guild Wars may make it to 25 years. At some point the game will become obsolete, but we don't know that date.

    3. Legacy seems more inactive and I think that may be because a lot of people are now moving to Reddit and Discord servers to chat about the game and make sales and trades. Also there is a black market forum that people seem active on but I don't participate in that forum or even watch it - but I hear a lot of people mention it.

    "To be spoken well of in my line of work could be disastrous for my career." - The Ninth Gate.

    Quote from ACWhammy

    Your title is Economy Discussion and then your question is "Is Guild Wars going to die soon? Legacy is like dead comparing to last year." That seems like two separate topics, or maybe even three.

    1. This is what happens to the economy because of botting and real money traders. Most people are okay with it. It's the reality we live in and must learn how to adapt to it or quit the game (or at least that economical aspect of the game - it's perfectly fine to play the game without participating in the high-end economy). Adapting to it doesn't necessarily mean joining them, but watching price trends and making good long-term decisions. Even then, it's impossible to keep up with what the bots and real money traders are able to do, but as I said it's the game we now live in, and as long as people are willing to buy items from botters for real money, that aspect of the economy will thrive.

    2. We don't know the answer to if Guild Wars is going to die. Everquest just passed it's 25th year anniversary this year. I believe as long as the servers are up Guild Wars may make it to 25 years. At some point the game will become obsolete, but we don't know that date.

    3. Legacy seems more inactive and I think that may be because a lot of people are now moving to Reddit and Discord servers to chat about the game and make sales and trades. Also there is a black market forum that people seem active on but I don't participate in that forum or even watch it - but I hear a lot of people mention it.

    Dunno for others but I’m inactive in this forum because it’s just a full panel of botted items, nothing interesting overall. If something out of the box comes in, credit card or bots take the items away with their limitless resources.

    Gw3 coming.

    IGN: Mr Clean Value

    :!: Important: Please if i win an auction/or u want to sell me an item write me an PM so we can organize the Trade :!:

    ...................................................................( Thanks for understanding and appreciate the help <3 )......................................................................................................

    "Keep it clean!" 🧽💦

    WTB: x00g - Clean Value items - 360g Roundshield - 256g RAM-hammer - Waterwand with 20/20 Fire

    Everybody out here talking about os items but you gotta give up an arm and a leg now just to afford pcons and cons to be able to speedclear without botting or rmt. Makes me wonder what these people sitting in kama 24/7 charging 70-90a for rainbow rocks actually gain from preventing ppl from playing. Surely they would never use rainbow rocks right? It was enough to make me quit when I realized so many other players who did speedclears botted or rmt'd for their ability to do hundreds of runs in a row popping rocks and warhorns.

    The economy is just the icing on the cake that really drives home "bot or be taken advantage of." but maybe im missing something idk