The truth about Pre-Nerf

  • Thanks for fast reply and infos :)

    IGN: Mr Clean Value

    :!: Important: Please if i win an auction/or u want to sell me an item write me an PM so we can organize the Trade :!:

    ...................................................................( Thanks for understanding and appreciate the help <3 )......................................................................................................

    "Keep it clean!" 🧽💦

    WTB: x00g - Clean Value items - 360g Roundshield - 256g RAM-hammer - Waterwand with 20/20 Fire

  • Well i had to look it up again, i think this is information that should even be in OP (ppl like to know when nerfs happened? right!)

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20060426

    So, april 26th, 2006:

    • Significantly improved the quality of rare (gold) and uncommon (purple) items.

    This is when 12-13% mods were nerfed, and 11-12% from purples, among alot other low mods with staffs, shields etc

    Same update also changed

    • Restricted Vampiric and Zealous weapon components to occur only on rare weapons.
    • Upgraded Sundering weapon components to provide a maximum Armor Penetration of +20% (Chance: 20%)

    So nerfed sundering mods and vamp mods came from same thing probably

    and also!

    • Changed new rare (gold) armor to only provide superior (gold) runes.
    • Changed new uncommon (purple) armor to only provide major (purple) runes.

    It's really fun to look at old updates!


    But in fact, factions was released 28th april 2006, so the nerf happened only 2days earlier!

    Edited 3 times, last by Pleikki (October 28, 2020 at 5:58 PM).

  • Yes that nerf was much earlier, cantha didnt drop gold 12-13% weapons, while it did drop max q8 weapons. i did look up the update that nerfed 12-13%'s on wiki sometime but cant remember exact date, ive probably posted it this thread or similar even hmm.

    For prediction thing, i dont think high priest zhang ever gave zkeys, but only tournament reward points you could exchange to zkeys with tolkano.

    I remember when they added the feature and zkey price crashed because everyone was awarded 50 reward points which allowed get 10 zkeys free. Of course the Xunlai tournament house predictions made huge drop to zkey price aswell. Until that their value was very high.

    It was indeed Tolkano, I have updated the post as I have been going through notes for the museum portion.

  • Also, Brick of Mud and Clay Brick are listed as pre-nerf items. As far as I know and from what I can read on the Wiki those items never actually existed in the game (as in nobody ever got a brick of mud or a clay brick in their inventory). Can anybody confirm ?

    As I did yesterday with the unconditional weapons, today I tried to find information about the "Brick of Mud". In the discussion page of the item in the Guild Wiki, an user posted a link to an old thread from GW Guru forums, and I have started to read the pages. The thing is that 5 messages from various users in there may contain interesting information that I didn't see outisde (I mean, the link is saved thanks to the Wayback Machine, but the information inside the thread was never transcribed outside).

    Link from GW Wiki: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:Brick_of_Mud

    Link from GW Guru: https://web.archive.org/web/2008050114…10283416&page=2

    Chat of the users in GW Guru:

    • 04-27-2008, 02:10 PM - KamikazeChicken: There was no way to obtain these materials at release, so it's not somebody clearing storage and magically finding them.
    • 04-27-2008, 02:20 PM - KiyaKoreena: Not true, my husband got a mud drop during the first week. (seared Ascalon area) Since there was no use for them he merched it and never got another one. It is possible for someone to have had it on their account for 3 years. Possible, not too likely.
    • 04-27-2008, 02:41 PM - Crom The Pale: If I recall correctly these items were used to craft the Tempored Glass Vial that was then needed for crafting the Vial of Ink.
    • 04-27-2008, 03:39 PM - The Little Viking: Well, if its anything like the rubies...I got one of those when all we had was prophesies. It dropped with in the first 6 months after release. Held on to it too... We eventually had a use for rubies. I recall seeing the the bricks in the past....either just before or just after factions. Never did find a use for them.
    • 04-27-2008, 04:10 PM - tarmongaidon: I've been playing since the beginning and an avid farmer also i have never had them drop nor heard of anyone ever getting them as drops. To my knowledge anet had an idea for them that never was implamented, so they took them out of the game. The fact that neither staoarge or rare mat guy has a slot for them combined with the fact the items in question look very much photoshopped leads me to believe this is a bunch of bs. Yes there are still the guys ingame that will make them just no mudbrick that will drop to make them. If u look closly at the pics of the mud and clay brick all they did was copy/paste and enlarge the pics to what u see in the original picture, somebody's just looking for attention.

    I also opened a new discussion thread in the Wiki (the message is the same) to see if anyone else can confirm this or shed some light on this matter there.

  • Since you are looking into quite ancient topics that few players are left from around then I will share my perspective as a closed beta player. I never personally saw a clay brick or Brick of Mud. The spot where majority of players first encountered them as even existing was in ascalon foothills. There is a crafter there that was the first spot in game that offered them as far as I know. I went back in wiki history and you can see he at one point did offer to craft clay bricks. I can't say for certain if they dropped in beta as that was a very long time ago and everyone was more focused on play than long term stuff. I do think you might get a joy out of flipping through the prima guide though for historical stuff. Prima guides were written before the game release so they were chocked full of wrong information at release however since all the info was gathered from betas they can be quite neat historically.

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/index.php?titl…ger&oldid=72556

    https://archive.org/details/Guild_…aGames/mode/2up

    The prima guide is a fun look into all sorts of things that changed or got removed between beta and release.

  • Yes both are prenerf even in many ways! Staff is prenerf for actual meaning, misses white HSR mod, also holy staff is monk skin so cant drop other than monk attris thesedays so dom and air mods are prenrf, and 3rd 16% is so low it doesnt drop anymore, so 3 ways prenerf!

    Shield has both mods so low that theyre both prenerf :)

  • The prima guide is a fun look into all sorts of things that changed or got removed between beta and release.

    This is the only information I've found (page 181 of the Prima Guide in .PDF):

    TUTqSut.jpg

    But after page 181 I've read all the tables of materials listed below and NONE mentions the Brick of Mud or Clay Brick. The item is mentioned a few times in the guide (the collector that requires this material, etc) but then, nothing else in the entire guide. Nothing at all.

    So, we have the statement of some users from GW Guru saying that this item indeed dropped, others saying that this item never dropped to them, and this text from the guide saying that can be obtained with normal salvage kits (but the weapon to salvage is never mentioned).

    If the info of the guide regarding the savage kits is correct (let's assume it) according to what Spun Ducky said: "Prima guides were written before the game release" then the Brick of Mud was available in the beta in the Ascalon Foothills, and removed in the game release itself (the item, not the collector, I mean).

    There's a bit of chaos here with the understanding of all the info. It would be easier if an HONEST developer said once and for all: "Yes, this item was available and it could be obtained from <whatever>" or "No, this item was designed but never implemented." and "We removed this item at this point <whatever>."

    But well, at this point in 2020 is useless to think about it, I don't even know if there is still someone from that time working at ArenaNet currently.

    Edited once, last by Ostona (October 31, 2020 at 12:38 AM).

  • Sadly even if there is a dev left the odds of them having worked on that specific thing and even remembering is near zero. The other sad thing about trying to answer questions like this is that guild wars was created prior to modern source control for the most part. The cornerstones of the industry now a days is Git and Team Foundation Server that didn't exist yet at gw release. There were earlier versions of SVN(Subversion) but game studios tend to be hectic so its quite possible they quite literally would just zip up folders of files to merge into the main folder so to speak with each patch leaving no notes or history.

    It is this very chaotic reason that I suspect a lot of questions or miscommunications have happened from PR reps over the years because quite literally they don't have a historical reference or anyone to ask. My personal opinion is that they were a salvage/drop in early betas and scrapped before release but they never cleaned up the traders until a few years later. The other problem is gw has had a lot of what I call shadow updates, sometimes very large and game changing but they never officially acknowledge there was a patch. These updates tend to fix things they don't want to talk about or someone in the chain didn't deem worthy of notes.

  • There are many items from betas left in players inventories like white staff wrappings that add nothing to anything xD

    But for brick muds, i can confirm they excisted in game, i remember when dev (mike or gaile gray) was even showing them to ppl at sometime years back, after that i dont know if they been removed from ppl's inventories after they removed the artisan in shiverpeaks, but back in 2005-2006 they did excist in the game.

  • Icydragon swords come with no value after they where nerfed to just drop q9 15^50 ?

    seen in wiki :

    Icy Dragon Sword GWW


    They dropped with a Goldvalue before?

    IGN: Mr Clean Value

    :!: Important: Please if i win an auction/or u want to sell me an item write me an PM so we can organize the Trade :!:

    ...................................................................( Thanks for understanding and appreciate the help <3 )......................................................................................................

    "Keep it clean!" 🧽💦

    WTB: x00g - Clean Value items - 360g Roundshield - 256g RAM-hammer - Waterwand with 20/20 Fire

  • They drop with no Goldvalue ( merchant value) like the bottom line with the Grey numbers is empty, there is none on the Golden versions I have seen so far and that is pictured on the wiki.

    Used some to drop with a gold value so a bottom line under the 15^50 mod?

    If there are Goldraretiy-versions with a Gold-value is that a bugged or prenerf item? Or maybe my knowledge about the No-Gold-Value at all in the IDS is wrong?

    Thanks for help :)

  • You can identify most weapons without a gold value for them to show up gold value, such as the glitched items from charr homelands quest or even guild sigils, maybe IDS also shows gold value if u identify them?

    I dont think any dropped with gold value, they dropped 1st as blue then switched to gold, ive never seen one with gold value so id suspect its the case of just iding one if some do excist

    Sadly dont have IDS nearby to test it out

  • I will buy a OS IDS today and will try to ID it to see if a gold value will show up. I think that is not working. These are not able to be identified again like the other non value items from the mentioned quest. I also think a OS IDS can't be sold to merch for that reason. I will be back home in ~4 Hours and then I can try to gather some knowledge about the topic. Thanks for help so far :)


    PS: maybe someone has a OS IDS atm and can try it and bring some enlightment in the darkness? :saint:

    IGN: Mr Clean Value

    :!: Important: Please if i win an auction/or u want to sell me an item write me an PM so we can organize the Trade :!:

    ...................................................................( Thanks for understanding and appreciate the help <3 )......................................................................................................

    "Keep it clean!" 🧽💦

    WTB: x00g - Clean Value items - 360g Roundshield - 256g RAM-hammer - Waterwand with 20/20 Fire

  • Nice thanks for trying. Then I need not only the FDS for my dragon Goldvalue set then I also need a IDS xD

    Finally I know the truth about it :) :thumbup:


    Big thanks. I will come here to seek knowledge again for sure.

    U can decide if that's a promise or a threatening :D

    IGN: Mr Clean Value

    :!: Important: Please if i win an auction/or u want to sell me an item write me an PM so we can organize the Trade :!:

    ...................................................................( Thanks for understanding and appreciate the help <3 )......................................................................................................

    "Keep it clean!" 🧽💦

    WTB: x00g - Clean Value items - 360g Roundshield - 256g RAM-hammer - Waterwand with 20/20 Fire

  • Nice thanks for trying. Then I need not only the FDS for my dragon Goldvalue set then I also need a IDS xD

    Finally I know the truth about it :) :thumbup:


    Big thanks. I will come here to seek knowledge again for sure.

    U can decide if that's a promise or a threatening :D

    prepare your explanation for people in kama why you want them to identify their ids lmao (ive been in situations like that, trust me its tedious...)

    IGN: Joker Hates Trading

    Feel free to message me ingame :)

  • Ostona now we need to the the GV after ID 8o

    IGN: Mr Clean Value

    :!: Important: Please if i win an auction/or u want to sell me an item write me an PM so we can organize the Trade :!:

    ...................................................................( Thanks for understanding and appreciate the help <3 )......................................................................................................

    "Keep it clean!" 🧽💦

    WTB: x00g - Clean Value items - 360g Roundshield - 256g RAM-hammer - Waterwand with 20/20 Fire

  • unknown.png         unknown.png

    I don't know how, why and in the world i can still search for a q9 ornate spear 300g. when this are things that are happening xD

    sry for small offtopic but i got 2 with same value now ^^

    one will get a 20% dragon sword mod and the other one i think a 22hp mod for the 15-22 vibe.

    thanks for help on the IDS topic now its just FDS q9+5en X00g to go and the draconic sctyhe and dragon set is done <3


    I will be back soon with a Prenerf Question. a really intressting topic :)

    IGN: Mr Clean Value

    :!: Important: Please if i win an auction/or u want to sell me an item write me an PM so we can organize the Trade :!:

    ...................................................................( Thanks for understanding and appreciate the help <3 )......................................................................................................

    "Keep it clean!" 🧽💦

    WTB: x00g - Clean Value items - 360g Roundshield - 256g RAM-hammer - Waterwand with 20/20 Fire

  • This thread also misses most of the new greens ppl been finding out about heh ;P

    We have a an entire section under development which will bring all this information up to date, correlate and organise it too. It’s taking a while, but we’re on it.

  • So yeah one thing missing here is collector staffs.


    basically every collector staff from tyria and cantha has prenerf and post nerf version from the HSR update

    4MUHDxp.png

    This thread also misses most of the new greens ppl been finding out about heh ;P

    I find this one quite weird.

    When you look at the 25th October 2006 update it says : "Green item staffs, crafted staffs, and collector staffs with any sort of recharge bonus have been updated to reduce the recharge time of all spells with a chance of 20% instead of the attribute-specific bonuses they had previously."

    In the case of the green staves all the existing one were updated (with the exception of 4 of the low level staves from faction). The update note is using the same wording for the collector staves and the crafted staves, so I had assumed the existing one were also changed.

    Also another one that can be added to the list, some of the weird blue item you get as quest reward in proph were apparently changed. Back in february I remember Nik was selling and unobtainable Q5 Smiting Deadly Cesta 5/5 10% armor pen (here)

    __________________________________________________________

    IGN : Veni Vidi Wiki

    WTB Triple prof wands + Aegis/SotW + Prenerf runes + Sanhan's Staff (here)

  • I was wondering if it's possible for ArenaNet to create a "GW Classic" like Blizzard has done with WoW (in this case, playing the game before Factions like in the first two months of the release) using a backup or image of the game from 2005.

    I remember reading countless times that many of the code of GW is hardcoded and can't be changed or it's very difficult. I don't fully understand this since I'm not videogame programmer/designer, but in computing everything can be changed, it's a question of knowing. They have said many times that the character loading screen cannot be changed for something related to this, so if they can't even change that, I don't want to imagine what a mess the inside of this game must be. Too bad there is no developer left to talk to, to explain a few things.

  • There are many items from betas left in players inventories like white staff wrappings that add nothing to anything xD

    But for brick muds, i can confirm they excisted in game, i remember when dev (mike or gaile gray) was even showing them to ppl at sometime years back, after that i dont know if they been removed from ppl's inventories after they removed the artisan in shiverpeaks, but back in 2005-2006 they did excist in the game.

    I resurrect this to say that I found in the Guru archive the "infamous" screenshots:

    04534-brick-of-mud.jpg04534-clay-brick.jpg

    i00txbV.jpg

    Sources (Date: Apr 27, 2008) (Time: 06:42 PM / 18:42)

    https://archive.guildwarslegacy.com/04/04 The Riverside Inn/04534 Clay Brick and Brick of Mud_ Showed today, oh noes.001.html

    https://archive.guildwarslegacy.com/04/04 The Riverside Inn/04534 Clay Brick and Brick of Mud_ Showed today, oh noes.002.html

    https://archive.guildwarslegacy.com/04/04 The Riverside Inn/04534 Clay Brick and Brick of Mud_ Showed today, oh noes.004.html

    I analyzed the screenshot and ""apparently"" it seems real despite the pixelation due the compression. The thing here is to know "how" he obtained the items if Mike or Gaile were the only ones having them. I find it practically impossible that something like this would have survived the first weeks of the game, and not just one item, but both. Why I say this? Because the pictures of both items in the Wiki were uploaded in 2007, and the post is from 2008, so even if the trade window screenshot is real, what makes me doubt is if the icon of the items could have be taken from there to fake it.

    The user who posted the screenshots says that the person who traded the items told him that they dropped near The Wilds (message #13), and "near" can mean anything in this game, more when we are talking of crafting materials and not monster materials (I don't Imagine a Wind Rider dropping a Brick of Mud). I think it's totally BS, because that terrain has been exploited thousands of times and the location is precisely at the end of the map, a good excuse to send someone to the other end of the world to look for something that does not exist to waste time... but who knows.

    Anyway, this is the small contribution that I have been able to get out of the whole thing. The screenshot is cut, the names are deleted, everything is pixelated, we don't even know the nickname of the player who took the screenshot and in the May 29, 2008 update the item was removed from crafters (33 days after the post from Guru), so it's a dead-end and we can only trust (or not) in what is left and the word of the people who claim that it existed and could be obtained in past times.

    Edited 12 times, last by Ostona (October 26, 2021 at 12:01 PM).

  • Has anyone had a Naked Sword drop for them that would only normally drop in insc? Or is that still up for debate

    Hey Montrell,

    As a fellow Naked Martial Weapon Collector, my experience is that EOTN and NF only skins (Skins that don't also drop in OS) can only drop Purple/Gold without an Inscription in Staves. I have never seen a martial Insc skin without an Insc. With that said, martials that also drop in OS all do come in Naked. In my collection, I am only missing 1 Naked Q9 Hammer (pesky Spiked Club, have a q10) out of all Post Nerf Bows, Hammers, Axes, Swords, and Daggers that drop as OS.

    If anyone has an EOTN or NF only skin (non-staff) that doesn't have an insc, I would love to see it.

    I hope that helps.

    Chevy

    My Legacy Trade Posts: WTSell | WTBuy

    My Collections (Working Progress): Chevy's Shiny Relics

    Other Fun (Discontinued, Historical info available): Poll for Favorite 2021 Drop

    Definition of "Collection": An Accumulation of objects gathered for study, comparison, or exhibition or as a hobby.

    Note: Definition does not specify rarity or value, although it could be a choice, it's not a requirement.

  • Hey Montrell,

    As a fellow Naked Martial Weapon Collector, my experience is that EOTN and NF only skins (Skins that don't also drop in OS) can only drop Purple/Gold without an Inscription in Staves. I have never seen a martial Insc skin without an Insc. With that said, martials that also drop in OS all do come in Naked. In my collection, I am only missing 1 Naked Q9 Hammer (pesky Spiked Club, have a q10) out of all Post Nerf Bows, Hammers, Axes, Swords, and Daggers that drop as OS.

    If anyone has an EOTN or NF only skin (non-staff) that doesn't have an insc, I would love to see it.

    I hope that helps.

    Chevy

    Hey, you can browse my collection post to spot a few, and if u dig even deeper find Zephyr's old collection and he had bunch of them even spears and like obsidian edge.

    Also Invokeur has clean scythe i sold to him. They definetly exist, but yeah never had one drop to myself, while ive bought some of them over the years, ppl have said they dropped them some years ago and some told they must have got them recently.

    I just have one bow (q9 aureate longbow) left now tho since i sold the ones i had to montrell today so hence guess he is asking this ;D

  • Hey, you can browse my collection post to spot a few, and if u dig even deeper find Zephyr's old collection and he had bunch of them even spears and like obsidian edge.

    Also Invokeur has clean scythe i sold to him. They definetly exist, but yeah never had one drop to myself, while ive bought some of them over the years, ppl have said they dropped them some years ago and some told they must have got them recently.

    I just have one bow (q9 aureate longbow) left now tho since i sold the ones i had to montrell today so hence guess he is asking this ;D

    If I was to guess, some if not all of these may be Mauso drops.

    My Legacy Trade Posts: WTSell | WTBuy

    My Collections (Working Progress): Chevy's Shiny Relics

    Other Fun (Discontinued, Historical info available): Poll for Favorite 2021 Drop

    Definition of "Collection": An Accumulation of objects gathered for study, comparison, or exhibition or as a hobby.

    Note: Definition does not specify rarity or value, although it could be a choice, it's not a requirement.

  • I'm more on the side that they still drop but rarely, esp since the skins i had were more regular NF kourna/vabbi skins that i havent seen to exist from mauseleum weapons.

    Also as said earlier, there were skins like obsidian edge even that definetly arent from mauseleum

    Just like those that claim that Q8 max bows and daggers still drop, my response is the same, due to the rarity, I would believe it being a current drop with actual proof (screenshots with post nerf gear, etc). Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend anyone to spend time trying to farm one as you might lose ALOT of picks doing so.

    My Legacy Trade Posts: WTSell | WTBuy

    My Collections (Working Progress): Chevy's Shiny Relics

    Other Fun (Discontinued, Historical info available): Poll for Favorite 2021 Drop

    Definition of "Collection": An Accumulation of objects gathered for study, comparison, or exhibition or as a hobby.

    Note: Definition does not specify rarity or value, although it could be a choice, it's not a requirement.

  • Yeah its definetly up for debate,

    i tried to hunt for zephyrs old collection post without luck, sofar only found this

    https://web.archive.org/web/2015042001…0463144p71.html

    With q9 runic blade and the q13 obby edge


    Most recent on page1 of collection thread in legacy... can someone fix those tinypic images? maybe theres some backup? XD

    Edited once, last by Pleikki (December 5, 2021 at 5:06 PM).

  • If anyone has an EOTN or NF only skin (non-staff) that doesn't have an insc, I would love to see it.

    I would believe it being a current drop with actual proof (screenshots with post nerf gear, etc).

    When you say current/postnerf, do you mean post-deathbane bug fix? I've mentioned it somewhere on Legacy before, but shortly after (within the first week or so) of the weapon contest skins being added to the game, I managed to pull a req9 emerald blade from kathandrax. To my surprise, it had no inscription...and it also had a deathbane mod.

    These update notes from 2008 refer to this old bug.

    Nowadays, of course, I regret having sold it back then (for 100k+100e, a mere fraction of what a correct one would've been at the time), but it's out there somewhere. I may have a screenshot of it on an old flash drive, but that will take some digging. Will get back to you on that.

    But I was under the impression that this sort of bug could still happen? Maybe not exclusively with/because of a deathbane mod, but just in general? Is that not the case?

    Edit: I assume this is what happened to the Obsidian/Runic Pleikki mentioned as well.

    IGN: Vengeful Was Unholy
    Discord: Unholy2295
    WTB Pre-nerf Greens -> Information
    My WTB Thread

  • the clean staffs dropping without insc mod seem to have deathbane mod allways (every ive dropped had one), i've imagined this still can happen very rarely with other weapons too..

    Aureatebow.png

    But yeah i bought this q9 aureate longbow just 2-3months ago without mods and the seller claimed having it dropped just days earlier.. i dont have any proof and well proving someting like that ofc is very hard like chevy said ppl with claiming q8 drops etc.. Its a shame most ppl just merch clean drops anyway