The truth about Pre-Nerf

Thanks for fast reply and infos

Well i had to look it up again, i think this is information that should even be in OP (ppl like to know when nerfs happened? right!)

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20060426

So, april 26th, 2006:

• Significantly improved the quality of rare (gold) and uncommon (purple) items.

This is when 12-13% mods were nerfed, and 11-12% from purples, among alot other low mods with staffs, shields etc

Same update also changed

• Restricted Vampiric and Zealous weapon components to occur only on rare weapons.
• Upgraded Sundering weapon components to provide a maximum Armor Penetration of +20% (Chance: 20%)

So nerfed sundering mods and vamp mods came from same thing probably

and also!

• Changed new rare (gold) armor to only provide superior (gold) runes.
• Changed new uncommon (purple) armor to only provide major (purple) runes.

It's really fun to look at old updates!

But in fact, factions was released 28th april 2006, so the nerf happened only 2days earlier!

Quote from Oldschool Cool

Also, Brick of Mud and Clay Brick are listed as pre-nerf items. As far as I know and from what I can read on the Wiki those items never actually existed in the game (as in nobody ever got a brick of mud or a clay brick in their inventory). Can anybody confirm ?

As I did yesterday with the unconditional weapons, today I tried to find information about the "Brick of Mud". In the discussion page of the item in the Guild Wiki, an user posted a link to an old thread from GW Guru forums, and I have started to read the pages. The thing is that 5 messages from various users in there may contain interesting information that I didn't see outisde (I mean, the link is saved thanks to the Wayback Machine, but the information inside the thread was never transcribed outside).

Link from GW Wiki: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:Brick_of_Mud

Link from GW Guru: https://web.archive.org/web/2008050114…10283416&page=2

Chat of the users in GW Guru:

• 04-27-2008, 02:10 PM - KamikazeChicken: There was no way to obtain these materials at release, so it's not somebody clearing storage and magically finding them.
• 04-27-2008, 02:20 PM - KiyaKoreena: Not true, my husband got a mud drop during the first week. (seared Ascalon area) Since there was no use for them he merched it and never got another one. It is possible for someone to have had it on their account for 3 years. Possible, not too likely.
• 04-27-2008, 02:41 PM - Crom The Pale: If I recall correctly these items were used to craft the Tempored Glass Vial that was then needed for crafting the Vial of Ink.
• 04-27-2008, 03:39 PM - The Little Viking: Well, if its anything like the rubies...I got one of those when all we had was prophesies. It dropped with in the first 6 months after release. Held on to it too... We eventually had a use for rubies. I recall seeing the the bricks in the past....either just before or just after factions. Never did find a use for them.
• 04-27-2008, 04:10 PM - tarmongaidon: I've been playing since the beginning and an avid farmer also i have never had them drop nor heard of anyone ever getting them as drops. To my knowledge anet had an idea for them that never was implamented, so they took them out of the game. The fact that neither staoarge or rare mat guy has a slot for them combined with the fact the items in question look very much photoshopped leads me to believe this is a bunch of bs. Yes there are still the guys ingame that will make them just no mudbrick that will drop to make them. If u look closly at the pics of the mud and clay brick all they did was copy/paste and enlarge the pics to what u see in the original picture, somebody's just looking for attention.

I also opened a new discussion thread in the Wiki (the message is the same) to see if anyone else can confirm this or shed some light on this matter there.

Thanks for the detailed thread. Didn't know about so many pre-nerf items, only the unconditional ones.

So if I'm not mistaken these two items should be pre-nerf as well right?

Yes both are prenerf even in many ways! Staff is prenerf for actual meaning, misses white HSR mod, also holy staff is monk skin so cant drop other than monk attris thesedays so dom and air mods are prenrf, and 3rd 16% is so low it doesnt drop anymore, so 3 ways prenerf!

Shield has both mods so low that theyre both prenerf

Wow that was a fast reply. Ty

Have those 2 sitting on my old storage account along with two +2 Axe Mastery -50HP runes. Never knew that all these items were pre-nerf.

Quote from Spun Ducky

The prima guide is a fun look into all sorts of things that changed or got removed between beta and release.

This is the only information I've found (page 181 of the Prima Guide in .PDF):

But after page 181 I've read all the tables of materials listed below and NONE mentions the Brick of Mud or Clay Brick. The item is mentioned a few times in the guide (the collector that requires this material, etc) but then, nothing else in the entire guide. Nothing at all.

So, we have the statement of some users from GW Guru saying that this item indeed dropped, others saying that this item never dropped to them, and this text from the guide saying that can be obtained with normal salvage kits (but the weapon to salvage is never mentioned).

If the info of the guide regarding the savage kits is correct (let's assume it) according to what Spun Ducky said: "Prima guides were written before the game release" then the Brick of Mud was available in the beta in the Ascalon Foothills, and removed in the game release itself (the item, not the collector, I mean).

There's a bit of chaos here with the understanding of all the info. It would be easier if an HONEST developer said once and for all: "Yes, this item was available and it could be obtained from <whatever>" or "No, this item was designed but never implemented." and "We removed this item at this point <whatever>."

But well, at this point in 2020 is useless to think about it, I don't even know if there is still someone from that time working at ArenaNet currently.

There are many items from betas left in players inventories like white staff wrappings that add nothing to anything xD

But for brick muds, i can confirm they excisted in game, i remember when dev (mike or gaile gray) was even showing them to ppl at sometime years back, after that i dont know if they been removed from ppl's inventories after they removed the artisan in shiverpeaks, but back in 2005-2006 they did excist in the game.

Icydragon swords come with no value after they where nerfed to just drop q9 15^50 ?

seen in wiki :

Icy Dragon Sword GWW

They dropped with a Goldvalue before?

Im not sure what u mean but the Ids drops used to be blue at 1st, not gold (theyre gold now, right?)

They drop with no Goldvalue ( merchant value) like the bottom line with the Grey numbers is empty, there is none on the Golden versions I have seen so far and that is pictured on the wiki.

Used some to drop with a gold value so a bottom line under the 15^50 mod?

If there are Goldraretiy-versions with a Gold-value is that a bugged or prenerf item? Or maybe my knowledge about the No-Gold-Value at all in the IDS is wrong?

Thanks for help

You can identify most weapons without a gold value for them to show up gold value, such as the glitched items from charr homelands quest or even guild sigils, maybe IDS also shows gold value if u identify them?

I dont think any dropped with gold value, they dropped 1st as blue then switched to gold, ive never seen one with gold value so id suspect its the case of just iding one if some do excist

Sadly dont have IDS nearby to test it out

I will buy a OS IDS today and will try to ID it to see if a gold value will show up. I think that is not working. These are not able to be identified again like the other non value items from the mentioned quest. I also think a OS IDS can't be sold to merch for that reason. I will be back home in ~4 Hours and then I can try to gather some knowledge about the topic. Thanks for help so far

PS: maybe someone has a OS IDS atm and can try it and bring some enlightment in the darkness?

Mr. Clean(-Value) I finished testing it, Pleikki is correct.

OS IDS, no gold value on the item and gold value of 35g when you try to sell it to the merch.

OS IDS after using an ID kit, gold value=232g

Nice thanks for trying. Then I need not only the FDS for my dragon Goldvalue set then I also need a IDS xD

Finally I know the truth about it

Big thanks. I will come here to seek knowledge again for sure.

U can decide if that's a promise or a threatening

Quote from Back in my Days

Nice thanks for trying. Then I need not only the FDS for my dragon Goldvalue set then I also need a IDS xD

Finally I know the truth about it

Big thanks. I will come here to seek knowledge again for sure.

U can decide if that's a promise or a threatening

prepare your explanation for people in kama why you want them to identify their ids lmao (ive been in situations like that, trust me its tedious...)

Quote from Oldschool Cool

Mr. Clean(-Value) I finished testing it, Pleikki is correct.

OS IDS, no gold value on the item and gold value of 35g when you try to sell it to the merch.

OS IDS after using an ID kit, gold value=232g

I confirm it too, just to have 2 pictures:

Ostona now we need to the the GV after ID

Quote from Back in my Days

Ostona now we need to the the GV after ID

No, no, mine will stay like this

I don't know how, why and in the world i can still search for a q9 ornate spear 300g. when this are things that are happening xD

sry for small offtopic but i got 2 with same value now

one will get a 20% dragon sword mod and the other one i think a 22hp mod for the 15-22 vibe.

thanks for help on the IDS topic now its just FDS q9+5en X00g to go and the draconic sctyhe and dragon set is done

I will be back soon with a Prenerf Question. a really intressting topic

So yeah one thing missing here is collector staffs.

basically every collector staff from tyria and cantha has prenerf and post nerf version from the HSR update

This thread also misses most of the new greens ppl been finding out about heh ;P

So much info in one place, thank you all!

Quote from Pleikki

So yeah one thing missing here is collector staffs.

basically every collector staff from tyria and cantha has prenerf and post nerf version from the HSR update

This thread also misses most of the new greens ppl been finding out about heh ;P

I find this one quite weird.

When you look at the 25th October 2006 update it says : "Green item staffs, crafted staffs, and collector staffs with any sort of recharge bonus have been updated to reduce the recharge time of all spells with a chance of 20% instead of the attribute-specific bonuses they had previously."

In the case of the green staves all the existing one were updated (with the exception of 4 of the low level staves from faction). The update note is using the same wording for the collector staves and the crafted staves, so I had assumed the existing one were also changed.

Also another one that can be added to the list, some of the weird blue item you get as quest reward in proph were apparently changed. Back in february I remember Nik was selling and unobtainable Q5 Smiting Deadly Cesta 5/5 10% armor pen (here)

Found this in one of my screens from 2006. No new info, just nostalgia.

I was wondering if it's possible for ArenaNet to create a "GW Classic" like Blizzard has done with WoW (in this case, playing the game before Factions like in the first two months of the release) using a backup or image of the game from 2005.

I remember reading countless times that many of the code of GW is hardcoded and can't be changed or it's very difficult. I don't fully understand this since I'm not videogame programmer/designer, but in computing everything can be changed, it's a question of knowing. They have said many times that the character loading screen cannot be changed for something related to this, so if they can't even change that, I don't want to imagine what a mess the inside of this game must be. Too bad there is no developer left to talk to, to explain a few things.

Quote from Pleikki

There are many items from betas left in players inventories like white staff wrappings that add nothing to anything xD

But for brick muds, i can confirm they excisted in game, i remember when dev (mike or gaile gray) was even showing them to ppl at sometime years back, after that i dont know if they been removed from ppl's inventories after they removed the artisan in shiverpeaks, but back in 2005-2006 they did excist in the game.

I resurrect this to say that I found in the Guru archive the "infamous" screenshots:

Sources (Date: Apr 27, 2008) (Time: 06:42 PM / 18:42)

https://archive.guildwarslegacy.com/04/04 The Riverside Inn/04534 Clay Brick and Brick of Mud_ Showed today, oh noes.001.html

https://archive.guildwarslegacy.com/04/04 The Riverside Inn/04534 Clay Brick and Brick of Mud_ Showed today, oh noes.002.html

https://archive.guildwarslegacy.com/04/04 The Riverside Inn/04534 Clay Brick and Brick of Mud_ Showed today, oh noes.004.html

I analyzed the screenshot and ""apparently"" it seems real despite the pixelation due the compression. The thing here is to know "how" he obtained the items if Mike or Gaile were the only ones having them. I find it practically impossible that something like this would have survived the first weeks of the game, and not just one item, but both. Why I say this? Because the pictures of both items in the Wiki were uploaded in 2007, and the post is from 2008, so even if the trade window screenshot is real, what makes me doubt is if the icon of the items could have be taken from there to fake it.

The user who posted the screenshots says that the person who traded the items told him that they dropped near The Wilds (message #13), and "near" can mean anything in this game, more when we are talking of crafting materials and not monster materials (I don't Imagine a Wind Rider dropping a Brick of Mud). I think it's totally BS, because that terrain has been exploited thousands of times and the location is precisely at the end of the map, a good excuse to send someone to the other end of the world to look for something that does not exist to waste time... but who knows.

Anyway, this is the small contribution that I have been able to get out of the whole thing. The screenshot is cut, the names are deleted, everything is pixelated, we don't even know the nickname of the player who took the screenshot and in the May 29, 2008 update the item was removed from crafters (33 days after the post from Guru), so it's a dead-end and we can only trust (or not) in what is left and the word of the people who claim that it existed and could be obtained in past times.

Has anyone had a Naked Sword drop for them that would only normally drop in insc? Or is that still up for debate

Quote from Montrell

Has anyone had a Naked Sword drop for them that would only normally drop in insc? Or is that still up for debate

Hey Montrell,

As a fellow Naked Martial Weapon Collector, my experience is that EOTN and NF only skins (Skins that don't also drop in OS) can only drop Purple/Gold without an Inscription in Staves. I have never seen a martial Insc skin without an Insc. With that said, martials that also drop in OS all do come in Naked. In my collection, I am only missing 1 Naked Q9 Hammer (pesky Spiked Club, have a q10) out of all Post Nerf Bows, Hammers, Axes, Swords, and Daggers that drop as OS.

If anyone has an EOTN or NF only skin (non-staff) that doesn't have an insc, I would love to see it.

I hope that helps.

Chevy

Quote from Agent Chevy

Hey Montrell,

As a fellow Naked Martial Weapon Collector, my experience is that EOTN and NF only skins (Skins that don't also drop in OS) can only drop Purple/Gold without an Inscription in Staves. I have never seen a martial Insc skin without an Insc. With that said, martials that also drop in OS all do come in Naked. In my collection, I am only missing 1 Naked Q9 Hammer (pesky Spiked Club, have a q10) out of all Post Nerf Bows, Hammers, Axes, Swords, and Daggers that drop as OS.

If anyone has an EOTN or NF only skin (non-staff) that doesn't have an insc, I would love to see it.

I hope that helps.

Chevy

Hey, you can browse my collection post to spot a few, and if u dig even deeper find Zephyr's old collection and he had bunch of them even spears and like obsidian edge.

Also Invokeur has clean scythe i sold to him. They definetly exist, but yeah never had one drop to myself, while ive bought some of them over the years, ppl have said they dropped them some years ago and some told they must have got them recently.

I just have one bow (q9 aureate longbow) left now tho since i sold the ones i had to montrell today so hence guess he is asking this ;D

Quote from Pleikki

Hey, you can browse my collection post to spot a few, and if u dig even deeper find Zephyr's old collection and he had bunch of them even spears and like obsidian edge.

Also Invokeur has clean scythe i sold to him. They definetly exist, but yeah never had one drop to myself, while ive bought some of them over the years, ppl have said they dropped them some years ago and some told they must have got them recently.

I just have one bow (q9 aureate longbow) left now tho since i sold the ones i had to montrell today so hence guess he is asking this ;D

If I was to guess, some if not all of these may be Mauso drops.

Quote from Agent Chevy

If I was to guess, some if not all of these may be Mauso drops.

I'm more on the side that they still drop but rarely, esp since the skins i had were more regular NF kourna/vabbi skins that i havent seen to exist from mauseleum weapons.

Also as said earlier, there were skins like obsidian edge even that definetly arent from mauseleum

Quote from Pleikki

I'm more on the side that they still drop but rarely, esp since the skins i had were more regular NF kourna/vabbi skins that i havent seen to exist from mauseleum weapons.

Also as said earlier, there were skins like obsidian edge even that definetly arent from mauseleum

Just like those that claim that Q8 max bows and daggers still drop, my response is the same, due to the rarity, I would believe it being a current drop with actual proof (screenshots with post nerf gear, etc). Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend anyone to spend time trying to farm one as you might lose ALOT of picks doing so.

Yeah its definetly up for debate,

i tried to hunt for zephyrs old collection post without luck, sofar only found this

https://web.archive.org/web/2015042001…0463144p71.html

With q9 runic blade and the q13 obby edge

Most recent on page1 of collection thread in legacy... can someone fix those tinypic images? maybe theres some backup? XD

Quote from Agent Chevy

If anyone has an EOTN or NF only skin (non-staff) that doesn't have an insc, I would love to see it.

Quote from Agent Chevy

I would believe it being a current drop with actual proof (screenshots with post nerf gear, etc).

When you say current/postnerf, do you mean post-deathbane bug fix? I've mentioned it somewhere on Legacy before, but shortly after (within the first week or so) of the weapon contest skins being added to the game, I managed to pull a req9 emerald blade from kathandrax. To my surprise, it had no inscription...and it also had a deathbane mod.

These update notes from 2008 refer to this old bug.

Nowadays, of course, I regret having sold it back then (for 100k+100e, a mere fraction of what a correct one would've been at the time), but it's out there somewhere. I may have a screenshot of it on an old flash drive, but that will take some digging. Will get back to you on that.

But I was under the impression that this sort of bug could still happen? Maybe not exclusively with/because of a deathbane mod, but just in general? Is that not the case?

Edit: I assume this is what happened to the Obsidian/Runic Pleikki mentioned as well.

Quote from Unholy

When you say current/postnerf, do you mean post-deathbane bug fix? I've mentioned it somewhere on Legacy before, but shortly after (within the first week or so) of the weapon contest skins being added to the game, I managed to pull a req9 emerald blade from kathandrax. To my surprise, it had no inscription...and it also had a deathbane mod.

These update notes from 2008 refer to this old bug.

Nowadays, of course, I regret having sold it back then (for 100k+100e, a mere fraction of what a correct one would've been at the time), but it's out there somewhere. I may have a screenshot of it on an old flash drive, but that will take some digging. Will get back to you on that.

But I was under the impression that this sort of bug could still happen? Maybe not exclusively with/because of a deathbane mod, but just in general? Is that not the case?

Edit: I assume this is what happened to the Obsidian/Runic Pleikki mentioned as well.

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the clean staffs dropping without insc mod seem to have deathbane mod allways (every ive dropped had one), i've imagined this still can happen very rarely with other weapons too..

But yeah i bought this q9 aureate longbow just 2-3months ago without mods and the seller claimed having it dropped just days earlier.. i dont have any proof and well proving someting like that ofc is very hard like chevy said ppl with claiming q8 drops etc.. Its a shame most ppl just merch clean drops anyway