The number of possible chest spawns per map! A constructive discussion.

indeed a question I had in mind as well. Also had several discussions over the years. Personally I was long convinced the number of chests in a given area is constant. Usual chestruns often skip "ineffective" corners, where there is little chance for a chest which is why e.g. in pongmei the experience of the chestrunner is as you stated. I tried to check it on a few areas and could almost always find the same number in the same area. But there were exceptions... those were which I still seem to observe - like one chest less or more than "usual".

The general experience is: larger area = more chests. But checking on that it's more a false interpretation since usually larger area = more foes or better maybe even larger area = more foe groups. Now I don't know the answer to the question of the mechanics - those are just some thoughts I am sharing.

I'd suppose the number of foes or foe groups in a given area are relevant for the number of chests spawning. For a given area I do not even know if the number of groups per area is constant. But certainly the number of foes varies. And the number of chests as well - by now I am pretty sure about that. I spent 30minutes in vulture drifts trying to find the 5th chest just few days ago since it was the first time of me not finding a 5th one in more than 200 runs where I was checking for number of chests. So I'd suppose there may be fluctuation but rather due to different spawn numbers - also checking with different quests active changes the number of chests (in certain cases significantly) which again does not relate to the number of foes exclusively.

So long story short: anet really did an awesome job on the games mechanics - the spawning and looting rngs are things that still aren't understood after what? 15 years almost. It keeps the game exciting after all the time

I am not sure if this applies to this area, but from experience in urgoz, sometimes a chest only spawns when you activate a pop-up (so only after popping it, a chest will spawn). I have also had this in different areas across factions while going for GWAMM. But again, I am not sure if it actually works like this. Hope it atleast helps a bit xd

yes indeed - most popular the plagueborn chest outside kaineng. I did never observe it in prophecies. Definitely not in vulture drifts. I'd suggest if the algorithm of number of chests per area is clear those ones will just be identified as "hidden" but already foreseen.

True - I remember the elona reach one... didn't think of it when I was writing...

There is also a pop-up chest in Hells at the end where the titans come out of the lava near the Portal Wraiths.

I love this topic!! I may have run a few chests in my time, stumbled over a few on accident (that may have been the grog in or out of the game hehe) but there are several environmental things as mentioned here that will impact chest spawns. The infamous foe pop-up does occur, not in all maps but several, and will at times effect if the chest is spawned prior to the pop up foe spawning or not. Oni is a good example that may not be visible but a chest will already be there before triggering the Oni. Then you have FOW which I run a lot during Pantheon week and that dang pesky spider cave will have a chest pop up behind you 50% or more of the time (always look behind you or hit your find next item button often while traveling through). As Praise mentioned, that Elona Reach chest in the far corner is actually triggered by picking up the shard which in return opens the gate.

There are also times where a chest can spawn literally outside of reach, which you can sometimes see, perfect example is EOTN Kilroy's punchout runs by the wolves, one will often spawn on the other side of the rocks. This makes me wonder if at times a chest can spawn outside of the "path" but not visible cause of where it spawned (just a hunch as there is no way to prove this).

Regarding Pongmei, the typical chest count is 5...….99% of the time. I have had a few times where I got 4 and ran all over the map a 2nd time looking for the one I missed cause stubborn me thinks that is the one with that q8 gold dual modded perfect bladed shield, and most of those times, there is not a 5th to be found. However, this is a statement that not everyone will believe me on, have had debates with others over this, I have seen 6 at Pongmei. This is rare, but it's all about the right amount of space between the chests. Most people think of 5 being the max and will stop, I do the same, but there has been times I have kept going in a very rare occasional, a 6th will be there (so don't rule out but also understand proof is wanted). If this happens again, I will screenshot my chat box with pick counts between the resigns.

With that in mind, not all areas have a set chest count that will be 100% of the time, and the size of the map may or may not always be the deciding factor. A lot of the low level areas even in HM, may only spawn 2 chests, like Jaya Bluffs. On the other hand, one of my favorite chest runs, Ice Dome, that is a relatively tiny map, can spawn 2-4 (yup sometimes 4) chests in a rather small area.

Lastly, the actual topic on hand, I cannot say I have experienced zero chests at Maishang Hills specifically, however I have elsewhere. One example of this that drove me crazy cause it happened often, is chest running at Turais Procession. I have had several occurrences of getting zero chests here even in a row, why, couldn't tell you, but it drove me bonkers!

Quote from Jodel_GW

Agent Chevy if i am right, Ice Dome has a high amount of foes whereas Turais is pretty empty. Maybe there really is a correlation between number of groups/foes and number of possible chests. Another addition: Turais has this weird spawns in the middle where just one foe after each other spawns until there is this boss spawn. Maybe each of these single foe counts as a group and can potentially spawn a chest. Thus, zero chests on that map without these spawns could be possible!? Distance between the spawns is also far enough for multiple chest i would say.

That may be the safer statement that chest counts are based on foe congestion versus actual size of the map. Even though Ice Dome only has 120-141 foes for a vanguish, they are in a very small area.

That's a great point of Turais, being that I was only after the chests for q8s, I didn't think about the possibility that they would be dependent on killing a specific foe, that would obviously still need to be proven but could be a possibility.

Agent Chevy Can confirm 6 chest Pongmei is a thing and 4 chest Hells

The direction you go in most likely does not affect it as the chests will be already generated when you load into the map. So for this it doesn’t matter which direction you go, the chests will already have been decided.

Do you think it matters what I am thinking about when I open a chest?

Happy thoughts you think make a difference?

on areas with multiple entrance logging the differences would definitely interesting. I could definitely imagine that ther may be differences...

What xander said is again something different which I want to question - are we sure the chests are already "generated" upon entering the area? I wouldn't know a way to check that though other than some "hacking" where one would search the data. The foes seem to be generated, otherwise the counter on a vanquish couldn't work (I mean the progress bar part). Thoughts?

Seeing as how it's been reported that some chests appear after a foe is found and/or is slain; it's at least possible a chest could appear in an area you've already searched. At the very least the direction you start from could make finding some chests more problematic.

It also occurs to me to wonder that if foes and objects can be a trigger for chests to appear; what kind of interactive objects and other things serve as a trigger. A NPC? An active Bounty?

I think I'll tinker with a few things as I have time.

Quote from Red Fireball

are we sure the chests are already "generated" upon entering the area? [...] The foes seem to be generated, otherwise the counter on a vanquish couldn't work (I mean the progress bar part). Thoughts?

I think the foes are generated but only 'on paper', i.e. they only start becoming graphical and active when you get into compass range. The exception may be certain boss patrol groups, I never looked into those (.e.g. hydra in desert, koren in drakkar). Whether chests are also generated upon area entry, I can't think of any way to test that, nor of any way to make use of the answer.

Quote from Bowie

what kind of interactive objects and other things serve as a trigger?

The only object apart from live foes that I have seen with a chest is the corpse of brave brent poltroon. He might be one of those weird objects that fall into multiple classes partially, including foe? There are other examples, like npcs being affected by "fall back" but not heal area... So I think foes are still the only object that have a chance to spawn locked chests.

Quote from Jodel_GW

Updated some maps here.

Let's start some assumtions which are somehow reflected in these data:

1. Quality of Chest seems to have an impact on the number of chests. It looks like maps which have chests that don't contribute to Treasure Master Title in NM have a maximum of 3 chests

Quote from Jodel_GW

3 The maximum number of chests per map seems to be 5. Some reported that they had Pongmei Chest Runs with 6 chests but as i manly run Pongmei for chests and did nearly all of my Treasure Hunter Title there without even ONE 6-chester, i still doubt that number.

You know Pongmei doesnt count for treasure hunter in normal mode, yet it has basically allways 5 chests ;P

But yeah, 450g chests that dont count for title overall have 4-5 chests in almost any larger area of desert/Kourna/kaineing city area from my exprience so 1. aint really true

Here is my modest contribution :

I have done a lot of Pongmei HM and never seen more than 5 chests.

I have seen some area with 0 chest :

- Reed Bog NM (this was a long time ago so take this one with a grain of salt).

- Tasca Desmise HM. I'm almost certain about this one. I triple checked the whole map. I even popped a conset to run more easily on the map. (If this matter I had the titan quest active).

Quote from Spun Ducky

I have had 0 chest runs in tascas, although i didn't always check if the one out of bounds spawned. Sometimes way into the mineral springs portal a chest spawns you can't get.

in theory you can - with a shadow step behind the portal - but it'd be tough - let's spread the word that crysta still drops there

I've been doing tascas nm with defend droks active out of boredom off and on.

Its been from zero and three for me.

Todays best so far q13 spawn raven staff in middle of midget camp /sigh

Mount Qinkai has 5 chests.