Unconditional Weapons

1st Official Post

    When you are told a weapon is "unconditional", what do you think that means? 65

    1. The weapon has +15% with no strings attached. (64) 98%
    2. The weapon has +15% & -1e/-1hp. Aka dual vamp & dual zealous. (0) 0%
    3. Both. (1) 2%

    Hello there!

    I am looking to pull in some collectors to this thread as I have recently discovered that there are quite a few players unaware of the existence of unconditional weapons.

    There are quite a few players convinced that items with "+15% with -1e or -1hp" are classified as unconditional.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that if any of those players were to try and sell the dual vamp/dual zealous weapons as "unconditional", they would promptly be laughed out of Kamadan.

    Any thoughts or input?

    https://archive.guildwarslegacy.com/14/00006%20Unc…eapons.001.html

    00003%20Unconditional.jpg

    Unconditional weps are as they sound, that is to say have no condition attached to the dmg mod. (Like The Axe shown above).

    Dual zeal and vamp are not considered "unconditional" because they come with a constraint (condition) of -1 degen.

    IGN: Pyro Loves Lobsters

    Quote from PyroLobster

    Unconditional weps are as they sound, that is to say have no condition attached to the dmg mod. (Like The Axe shown above).

    Dual zeal and vamp are not considered "unconditional" because they come with a constraint (condition) of -1 degen.

    Quote from Expugnare

    There is only one answer here: no strings attached. The Axe is the quintessential example.

    You'd be surprised at how hard a concept this is for people.

    Out of curiosity - Anyone actively play with one in their possession?

    I don't think there is really any question about what the term "unconditional" means with regard to these weapons.

    Perhaps players who weren't around for, or aren't aware of, the time in the game's history when these things roamed the wilds are confused by the fact that DZ and DV (was well as 15/-5 and 15/-10) weapons always grant the extra damage, but they are playing semantics and missing the point.

    I agree with my esteemed guildies above. Additional damage. No conditions, strings, drawback or downsides attached. Pure.

    The r8 15 uncond axe is very much alive and well in our vaults.


    We also house the following on an active account. They are gifts given by an absolute titan from years gone by, the man who helped start me on my path of hammers.

    196_-_Herb_-_14_War_Hammer.png280_-_Herb_-_13_Falchion.png

    I think this is pretty much nailed down. I agree that many people simply don't understand that items like this ever existed. They probably have just heard the term and are wracking their brains for something to attach it to. But just like anywhere else, sometimes the truth in Guild Wars is stranger than fiction.

    The Axe is intact, pristine, and perfect. As it was at its creation. It is not only the best item in the entire game, but also the most important. A unique moment in Guild Wars history, frozen in time. A true relic.

    <3[PhD]<3

    As someone who started playing in December of ‘06, well after these were discontinued I imagine, I’ve always been curious about how rare they were back in the day. I always knew what they were, but of course never ran into someone with one (until coming back and seeing the few in PhD). When they were obtainable, how rare are we talking? Obviously all the time between then and now adds to their rarity, same as many other discontinued/pre-nerf items, but is there a relative equivalent in terms of rarity?

    Say, an unconditional back then was the equivalent of getting ___ nowadays? (I’ve heard similar talk of max r7s being somewhat common back then, having perhaps only become “important” over the passing of time).

    Did they (unconditionals) drop from any location? On any skin? Or only from the keyless chests, where so many other pre-nerf relics came from? For how long after the game’s launch were these obtainable? Having not been around for that time in the game, I wish I had the opportunity to just spam those keyless chests over and over, just to see what it was like :P

    Thanks in advance to those who know and were around at the time.

    PS: For what it’s worth, back in like 2008/9-ish, I wanna say I heard a guy with the gwguru handle of Todeshand (or something like that) had an unconditional crystalline. Anyone else know anything about that? Never saw a screen of the alleged item, but I mean I guess it’s theoretically possible for one to have existed, yeah?

    IGN: Vengeful Was Unholy
    Discord: Unholy2295
    WTB Pre-nerf Greens -> Information
    My WTB Thread

    This link (that Motoko gave) is probably the best surviving list and discussion of the game's inventory of unconditional weapons.

    As with any other legend, things tend to grow and become more and more disconnected from reality as the game of telephone stretches over the decades. I hope that game continues to stretch over many decades. At the same, though, it's nice to have a chance like this to dust off that thread and shine a little bit of light on reality.

    Thanks, Motoko, for starting this thread. Hopefully it helps more people understand a little bit more about our little universe.

    <3[PhD]<3

    • Official Post
    Quote from Unholy

    Wish all the old screenshots there were visible :(

    We tried. We really did. One of the primary reasons we created Legacy was to retain as much of the knowledge as possible. It was a scramble to save as much of the guru archives as we did, and without Smoke Nightvogue ’s help we might never have saved any of it.

    "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" - Oscar Wilde

    Quote from Unholy

    Wish all the old screenshots there were visible :(

    I hear you. Luckily, you can still access every page of the thread if you manually change the page number in the URL. For everyone's convenience, here are links to the pages of the thread. There's some great info in there, including about dual zealous/dual vamp and those were once used to generate "fake" unconditional weapons.

    Enjoy!

    Page 1

    Page 2

    Page 3

    Page 4

    Page 5

    Page 6

    <3[PhD]<3

    Apologies for the bump, but yesterday I had a conversation with another player that collects Paper Fans, one thing led to another and because I like history (regardless of whether it's from reality or a fictional product) my interest in pre-nerf times resurfaced.

    I read the 6 pages from Guild Wars Guru forum posted by Captain Krompdown in message #14 and even having started playing Guild Wars from the first day it came out like many of you (I never played the betas though) I didn't know about unconditional weapons until minutes ago (mainly because I am not American or English, and in those days I couldn't speak or write in English, it's not my native language and I learned it years after this happened, so I never frequented English websites to be aware of all this).

    This has been a really interesting sharing of information of the early days of the game and it's a pity that both websites closed ("Guild Wars Guru" and "TinyPic" image hosting), because there is so much interesting content that has been lost forever. Some GW Guru pages have been rescued thanks to the Wayback Machine - Internet Archive, but the TinyPic photos attached to the threads have all been lost.

    Almost everything has been clear to me, but there is one thing that is not entirely.

    To put in context, from the links in message #14:

    Quote

    Leriel Frostbringer wrote:

    Some unconditionals came from the divinity coast barrel mentioned here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showpost…25&postcount=67

    Here is also some mention about barrel being bugged: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthr…l=1#post3559053

    Quote

    Yawgmoth wrote:

    I was there from the very beginning and I remember huge masses of players playing... but the vast majority of them didn't make it to Lion's Arch by the time unconditionals stopped dropping. I well remember how stupidly low were the chances to get any gold weapon drop at all then, except specific locations, that's why so many unconds come from the bugged Arid Sea barrels that dropped golds enmasse before nerf - likely half of the golds in game at that time came from there.

    So basically, as stated there, the majority of unconditional weapons came from two places:

    1) a barrel from Divinity Coast

    2) a barrel from Arid Sea

    And my questions are:

    1. The barrels these users refer to, are the ones from this link? https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hidden_Stash

    2. Were they removed or converted to normal chests? Because I don't remember seeing barrels in the Arid Sea.

    3. What was the "bugged barrel"? I mean, what was the method to bug it or what did it consist of? Because I can't acces the thread, so it's impossible to read the information inside.

    It amazes me that weapons of this type have survived so long until 2020, really incredible.

    EDIT: Well, this answers my question number #2 it seems:

    Quote from Pleikki

    1st of all, the chests were newer "Bugged" they were normal part of game as the keylesses excisting now in pre, SF, Uw fow etc are, they were only removed because anet realised it was too easy farm great items from keyless chests that were avaible to everyone.

    2nd of that, those keylesses dropped everything on drop table, as does the keyless chests excisting thesedays, (only white, blue purple tho, as the chests dropping golds were removed)

    Edited once, last by Ostona (October 28, 2020 at 4:22 AM).

    • Official Post

    While the generic term most use is keyless chest, these "chests" actually had many names and different models. Iron strongbox, lockbox, barrel, stash, and many others I can't remember. They sometimes had a similar theme to the area it was found in. Yes, they were all removed except the previously mentioned spots and now we have a randomized chest spawn location for locked chests. Interesting enough where some of these statically located keyless chests use to spawn tend to be areas where locked chests spawn.

    Edit: One of the things for the museum I have wanted to add is take pictures of locations where keyless chests use to spawn. I don't remember near all of them just mainly the ones I farmed but I am sure others could show spots too.

    Hello guys,

    I sometimes (like once a year or so) google my old nick name in connection with guild wars and so came upon this thread. If I remember to do so, I will look for some old screen shots on my computer tomorrow. Also, always happy to answer any questions whose answer I recall (can tell some rough stories/prices on the 3 unconditional weapons I actually traded between 2008-2010, which, as far as I know, were all unconditionals that traded in that time span apart from the req8 15% double bladed axe which traded from Spil to... forgot the name, some guy from PhD, somehow remember him as English/Russian)

    Greetings

    Todie 8)

    EDIT: I actually couldn't wait and fired the old machine up. Sadly, it seems, most of my screenshots are lost. I can only find pictures of my bow collection - at least including that req10 13% Wooden Longbow. I post the big picture for the flex (and because I think some people might like to see the goods).

    EDIT2: Image quality is kind of low, so I uploaded another picture just of the unconditional bow. And also a screenshot of a special shield that I still had on my computer. Not unconditional, but at least equally rare.

    EDIT3: Also, just to debunk some rumors: I've never owned an unconditional Crystalline as claimed in some post above. I have owned a fair share of exciting items though during my days and can tell a story or two about them.

    Hey there !

    I remember when I heard something about Frozen Chest and Lost Strongbox in the Dreadnough Drift.

    Someone in Lion's Arch explained me that thing in private message and I decided to try.

    The day I tried, I was so excited to think about a Dwarven Axe or a Crysta maybe, but I had no luck and the day after, Anet decided to take out those chests.

    I just had the time to grab some white to purple things, but most were runes and few weapons.

    For the other keyless chests I was too late to. When it was? Late 2005 or early 2006 maybe? Don't remember..

    Quote from Captain Krompdown

    Full story of Teh Axe posted here for anyone interested.

    Tode, I believe you're thinking of Jason XII, a good friend and one of my earliest officers.

    Yes, it was Jason! I think we used to be friends (as I was with many of the greats back in the day) and then fell out because of some silly story - trolling each other for some IRL stuff I had found on his Facebook or so? I don’t remember if we ever made peace over that, sadly. And I also didn’t know The Axe moved on after this. Would love to know which person owned it before you. At least it’s in fine hands now.

    The other 3 unconditionals that were on the market in these years where a req9 14% long sword - which I bought in spring 2008 for 1400e and customized (it actually took me over half a year to decide on buying that sword), a req11 14% long sword which I bought the same week as the req9 one for 1750e from Greedy Nephilim from Serbia (don’t remember his actual name) and the req10 13% long bow from the screen shot. I bought that one in 2010 from a gwg guru user called Hi!, and I believe I paid 1500e and a henchman tonic for that - one of the more popular ones that was evaluated at 3000-4000e at the time, I don’t remember which one though. I had actually sold the req11 long sword in summer 2008 for a mere 1000e to Sara Valentine (who custo’d it) because I desperately needed funds for an extremely stupid trade - buying a Mini Polar Bear from Tiara Schutz for around 7000e at the time. The rarest Mini in the game for 4-5 months to come...

    About the Kilroy quest side topic: this quest should still be around (it still was in 2010 and I don’t see why anet would fix it) and I got some purple crystallines and dwarven axes there. I also remember I showed this run to some people, but sadly don’t remember their names... so I’m not sure if the people in this thread were among them ;)

    Quote from _Todeshand_

    About the Kilroy quest side topic: this quest should still be around (it still was in 2010 and I don’t see why anet would fix it) and I got some purple crystallines and dwarven axes there. I also remember I showed this run to some people, but sadly don’t remember their names... so I’m not sure if the people in this thread were among them ;)

    You acutally showed it to me :) Appreciate you took the time for it!

    My go to sword still is the purp q9 14%s Crysta I found there.

    IGN: Eowyn The Wite

    Quote from _Todeshand_

    a req11 14% long sword which I bought the same week as the req9 one for 1750e from Greedy Nephilim from Serbia (don’t remember his actual name)

    I think you’re referring to Fallen Seraphim // Hero from Serbia in old GWG.

    Great stories in here. The guy who held onto the axe before it went to Kromp/Kabong logs on from time to time. And I think he still has some of those GG items, including a Q8 20/20 fire staff if I remember correctly.

    Yuko

    Quote from Expugnare

    I think you’re referring to Fallen Seraphim // Hero from Serbia in old GWG.

    Great stories in here. The guy who held onto the axe before it went to Kromp/Kabong logs on from time to time. And I think he still has some of those GG items, including a Q8 20/20 fire staff if I remember correctly.

    Yuko

    Okay, let’s go off topic and have some fun. If someone wants to split this from the original thread, I welcome you.

    Yes, it was Fallen Seraphim, I remember the name now that you mention it. Sorry if I offend anyone, but since I am long inactive now, I feel like I can speak more openly about many things (ask away if you like to hear stories!). I had never really been a fan of the guy, but what happened with the sword kind of made him go down in my “unhonorable people list”. At the time I was planning to take a break from Guild Wars - of uncertain length; it ended up being way shorter than expected at 1.5 months or so. Anyways, since I thought I might be gone for a while, I decided to hoard some nice items. Because that kind of stuff goes up in price over time. Amongst these items where the both uncond long swords and I believe the Spikey Hammer that Kabong is talking about (I’m not a 100% on the timeline with this one, but I will talk about what happened with it later in the post; already reminded Kabong via pm). I also bought some Crystas and req7’s and similar non-sense at that time. Oh, and the - in my opinion - most precious inscriptable item GW has ever produced.

    So Fallen Seraphim had just bought this freshly surfaced req11 uncond long sword for some lowballer price (maybe 300-500e, if at all?). The req9 had been in the market for nearly half a year at that point and failed to sell at 1400e. He was trying to sell the req11, I think at 1000e b/o. And I flatly contacted him, told him I had just bought the req9 one and I want the req11 as well, and I’d pay the b/o. Next time you know he’s bumping up the price. In the whole process he “agreed” to my offers a whole total of 3 times, then always backing off, until we ended up at 1750e. The style of negotiation will make me dislike him forever. I wouldn’t have cared if he started the negotiation with a b/o at 5000e and we would have slowly crept down, but once you agree to a deal, it should be done. I even have some kind of understanding for “second thoughts” that might arise when I offer to pay b/o so quickly (I was after all under a slight time pressure, trying to organize my “wealth” before going on break), but having third and fourth thoughts is not a thing that happens so easily. I’ve led my fair share of hard negotiations in my times before and after (Dirks, eh, Pleikki?), but this just felt foul. I never really warmed up to the sword afterwards and I am not sad about letting it go. Especially since Sara Valentine (aka Vitto369 on guru) was not only what I called a “premium contact” who helped me arrange a lot of great buys and sales, but also a great fellow to talk to in the game.

    The story of the req9 long sword is also interesting. An infamous German, Nico, “Ned Flanders” aka “Nathaly Windborn” had bought it in the third quarter of 2007, presumably to turn a profit on it. I knew Ned, he was the leader of a big German elite PVE/trading guild that I was a member and officer of for a while in mid 2007. Also, he was really big in the German community. And he had a dubious reputation. I don’t have any proof, but it was widely believed that he was an ebay buyer. At the time I was quite known as a power trader in the German community (funnily, to give you some insight, I had just started trading in 2007 - I’m not at all as ancient as it might seem, but it was a stellar lightning career) and since he knew me, he asked me to sell the sword for him. Maybe, there was something fishy about the sword. Maybe it was just that he was unpopular at guru. Maybe he just thought I was talented enough to turn a profit on an item he seemingly overpaid for. In the end, it didn’t sell and went back to his storage. I had a good idea what his lowest price was, so it was easy for me to pick it up when I decided to buy it for myself. I also felt it belonged with me, since it was the first “big attention sale” I had on guru, and I had spent quite a while with it.

    Now to the Spikey Warhammer. Basically just a Warhammer req7 15/50, no big deal. Bought it from a guy called Toilet Monster by outbidding Kabong in a guru auction for I believe 550-600e. Which was a tone of money at the time for a hammer - so it makes sense that this was in my “hoarding/investment craze”-phase. I sold it later to a guy called Marseilles Walles whom some may remember - and some might not - for 750e without public offering. He might be a bit of a controversial figure.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars/co…utm_medium=mweb

    This is was google search brought up for me. It sounds like prime Walles to me. Just weird he hasn’t grown up much since then. :D

    This guy is a bloody legend in my eyes. And I understand if people hate him and disagree with me. Just to give you an idea, this is how the deal with the Spikey went down, more or less: Walles contacting me, asking if I have any unique/one of a kind items for sale. Me naming the hammer. Him stating he wants it. Me naming a price of 750e (remember 550-600 was a lot already for the hammer!). Him saying “okay, give it two weeks to farm the ectos”. Two weeks later, he’d contact me and pay. And in the same style I sold many incomparable items to him (req7 -2/45 skeleton shield, tall shield, some dual neg req7 shields, req7 -2/30 spiked targe, req7 15/50 war axe, req7 5nrg dadao, req7 15/-5 crenellated, req9 dual vamp crystalline, to name a few). The geezer had the most GWAMM’s among all players I knew, the most titles on his main character among anyone I knew, and a great way of doing business. Amazing knowledge of Guild Wars PVE. I don’t know if he botted back then or exploited - there was always this little suspicion there - and he was a massive troll and what some people might call an “unbearable person”, but we had a great personal and business relationship. He customized the Hammer (I think the trade included the 10g as was custom among us. Small service from me so he didn’t have to run to his Xunlai Chest. ;) ) and that’s its story.

    Edit: More stories, since I love that kind of stuff and I received a pm with a question. Please feel free to ask more things in the thread and I will happily tell more stories! :angel:

    So I forgot to talk about the “most precious inscribable item in the game” (in my opinion). It was a req8 str. Gloom Shield which I bought for 200e in a big Guru sale. I am convinced that this must have dropped shortly after EotN release when drop tables were strange (there were multiple weird things going on then; for example I know about a purple inscriptable crystalline sword which might be a competitor to the Gloom Shield for “most precious inscribable item”). It was the accompanying shield to the req9 14% unconditional long sword for quite a while; until I decided to actually leave Guild Wars in early 2009 (this meant transforming everything that could be sold to ectos, giving presents to some lucky people - and then, I can admit this nowadays in the open, since my account is long history and I was a poor student, transforming those ectos into booze and a nice lifestyle for a while; I admitted to this in private whenever asked, but never openly, but why not: I cashed out decently, and I know others who have as well). Of course, this wasn’t the final chapter as I came back from scratch one a half years later, but that’s another story.

    Among the lucky people who got some gifts there was the following story: in my quitting sale, I sold some generic cantha req8 caster sword (I think Jitte or Katana) to a guru user whom I was friendly with and who collected these weapons (it was not Aris; instead some guy from the Netherlands who was into cars. I forgot his name sadly.) He told me excitingly that he now had every canthan skin apart from the dusk blade. I knew who had a Q8 5nrg Dusk Blade: Eir Of Asgard (this guy is a whole additional story, tons of things to talk about here). He had a massive collection of req8 items, trying to get every skin possible. I happened to own two very valuable items whose skins he was still missing. At first I had planned to give them to him for free, but now instead I asked for the dusk blade as a small favor in return (which in my opinion was a great deal for him; I still don’t understand why req8 dusk blades are considered to be so rare, I’ve seen multiple req7 ones even). One of the two items I gave him, you might have guessed, was the req8 Gloom Shield. The other one was a req8 tac -3/30 echovald. When I made a return to GW later I actually tried to convince him with heaps of ectos to give that gloom shield back to its daddy. Luckily he resisted, and I hope it still resides with him. Fun fact: he was actually slightly pissed at me and thought I ripped him off with this trade since he had trouble finding another dusk blade. ^^

    Edit 2: I was going through some old guru posts, and my memory isn’t perfect: the dusk blade was req8 15/50, not 5nrg. Same for the rest of that guy’s collection. His name was Sirenia X.

    Edited 3 times, last by _Todeshand_ (February 3, 2021 at 8:59 PM).

    Quote from _Todeshand_

    Okay, let’s go off topic and have some fun. If someone wants to split this from the original thread, I welcome you.

    .....

    Interesting stories, the nostalgic feeling is gigantic. Somehow everything was a bit shady back then, but that's probably what made the scene so interesting. I still wonder today how did many of the people made their gw-fortune. It can't be just trading, as I assume whenever someone like a Todie makes profit, someone else makes loss: bots? ebay (backed by corresponding real financial means)? duping?

    Whatever it was, in the end it was entertaining and interesting as a - back then teenage - outsider. In order not to remain offtopic, here is a nice screen of the abovementioned req9 14% longsword which which I found on my dusty external hard drive.

    Definitly one of the best thread of the forum, I want more stories like this, fascinating to remember those nostalgic times

    IG : Bounty Hunter Zoro

    coming from the new world

    Quote from Stexe

    How much are unconditionals worth now in general? Any idea what they might fetch on the market or what people would even consider trading them for?

    Nobody can answer that question with a number. None have been sold for years and besides one isn't equal to another so pointless to compare past sales if there were some. Its the best example of the phrase "as much as somebody will pay and as little as somebody will sell" you will find. If you wanted to speculate and say in they in the same category as OS Cry, Swamp clubs ect then fine but as the price of such are items are equally impossible to predict its a pointless exercise imo. Also pretty likely this question will never be answered. Majority of known ones are custoed, remaining are either on banned / dead accounts and the few extras not in those categories are in the hands of people who will never sell. Would be good to see some long lost ones resurrected 15 years after they were created though :)

    IGN: Pyro Loves Lobsters

    Quote from Ostona

    It would be fun to see an offer from someone with a +15%^Unconditional vs. that one selling the q8 Crysta for 4 years: "tOo lOw SorRrY" :D

    I can tell you that there's no swampy, crys, dwarven, or mini that would make me even consider trading Teh Axe. Hundreds of armbraces wouldn't even begin to come close.

    I wouldn't trade it for a full set of perfect req 8 swamp/dwarven/crys or a screen full of kanaxais. I can't think of a number of armbraces (that the game could actually support) that would make me consider selling.

    Literally priceless. That's the market 😉

    Quote from Stexe

    How much are unconditionals worth now in general? Any idea what they might fetch on the market or what people would even consider trading them for?

    Whatever a buyer is willing to pay. A seller could have some imaginary number in mind like 100,000a. But if the top buyers are only offering 1,000-2,000a, I would consider the 100,000a price tag to be a fantasy and definitely an outlier that should be ignored in valuations.

    ....as are the days of 15% unconditional weapons being up for sale (particularly in req 8). Let's not be confused about what the fantasy is here 😉

    Let's just pretend that 1000-2000a is the max cash bid these days. That can get you an awful lot. It gets you a nice req 8 crys. But, just for reference, a req 8 stance crys is only the beginning of what I traded for Teh Axe 10+ years ago.

    I understand that Stexe 's question was about unconditionals in general, not just Teh Axe. As PyroLobster said, no two are alike so sales (if they existed recently) couldn't really be compared and would provide no solid basis for generalization. The same goes for the price I paid for Teh Axe. Other unconditionals have changed hands for lower prices, but those were lesser items and were sold years ago, when there were more uncusto'd unconditionals on active accounts. I'm sure _Todeshand_ would be willing to fill you in on the sales he was part of.

    These days, though? Buying any unconditional is the dream (hence Stexe 's question). It would be fun to see. But Teh Axe for 1-2ka is strictly fantasy ^^