Museum posting and customization

  • Pleikki I didn't post this on ur thread out of respect for what collection section is supposed to be about. Instead I'll address it here and pose a related question.

    Personally I'm just confused. You gone from: "I do love writing my name on items! Think it is the best part of collecting in General!" and "every great piece of art deserves to be regonized in the books of history." to cropping out the custo, the gold value and the boarder. You posting things custoed to others and claiming they ur warriors?!? You have things in a collection that you "got from friends" but you "still seeing if i can find some on my own to replace those ones". What does that mean? are they urs, are they on loan, are they custoed to the original owner? Maybe clarify these kinda things better and you wont get people looking upon it suspiciously. You do what you want, but imo any perceived disrespect you feel was bought on by your own actions with these strange posts. So unnecessary as well, such quality items speak for themselves you don't need all this nonsense.

    Which leads me to my question:

    Is displaying customized items in a way that hides that fact they customized something people should be doing?

    (in my view no, seems dishonest)

    IGN: Pyro Loves Lobsters

  • Well, i 100% get that point, i did think about it when i decided to start posting things like that, but there are few simple reasons why i made it like this

    1. While i was looking ways to present things, i walked to weaponsmith and saw how he shows item on my inventory, with the icon and 1st rows of stats, i liked that, which go to 2nd reason.

    2. Merchant cuts the below lines out, so in order to do that, would need several crops and alot more work and time i sadly dont have right now.

    hcfO9sX.png

    3rd i saw its great for keeping images smaller, and everything looked clean and same then, while with below lines others being custod and others not the sizes were wrong and making images got harder.

    Well, i hope it gave reason from my side for the new way, its simply because i like how it looks

    I rly hope we can clear things up and forget all this nonsense.

  • Thanks for replying. I should clarify. I know how you done it, I just don't know why. You love customizing things and you taking screens of them that don't show that seemed out of character. If its for keeping the images smaller I can understand and that's fine. My main concern and I think the concern from others was, is this an attempt to hide the custo line for a different reason. The confusion about stuff "got from friends" but still trying to buy another and additional stuff you did show custoed to others claimed as part of ur warrior collection only adds to that.

    IGN: Pyro Loves Lobsters

  • My 2 cents, and steering clear of other unanswered issues raised by Pyro:

    To me, it's not entirely appropriate to present artifacts in a museum in adulterated form. Museum should be about truth and history and context, not editing those things to make snips look better. We've always believed in the importance of items carrying the history of the game.

    Consistency between words and actions being important, please note my few customized hammers are presented as such in my museum post.

    Kabong

  • Maybe there is just a misunderstanding? That is the most charitable interpretation I can come up with.

    As Pyro mentioned, your statement that you're posting "items from friends" that you hope to replace for yourself can be interpreted in many ways. The easiest/most likely interpretation of that statement is that you've borrowed items to help fill out your collection. This is obviously different from ownership.

    Another easy interpretation is that maybe you bought them for a special "friend price" with the understanding that the item would be returned when you found your own version. Is this the case? If so, that is a rental -- not ownership.

    An interpretation involving legitimate ownership is more difficult to reach. Again, that is because of how your statement is worded. Maybe a friend legitimately sold you an item that they want for themselves as a favor (to help you build your collection) and you'd like to pay them back by replacing that item. That's totally possible (and reasonable) but it doesn't fit easily with what you said. I'm trying to be charitable here so I'm asking whether ownership is the issue or if your statement itself is the issue.

    Perhaps you're so confused by the reactions you're receiving because you don't understand the message that you're sending out. Maybe you're not addressing this issue because you don't understand that you may have misspoken. Or maybe you're not addressing it because you're hoping that people will be distracted and just forget about it. As Pyro said, some clarification of that statement would be helpful.

  • Well i will clarify things best i can.

    So, while i did make this new way of presenting things, i noticed same issue as you did and noted the issue it may be causing, but then i also though that 99% of things been posted on collection thread or other threads in legacy allready before, even things "from friends" that i have with every line and signatures, so by now i though if someone cares and don't know what it is by now, they can easyly look it up or just simply ask me if they have questions, since the new way looked so much better to me it was thing worth doing.

    I've never tried to hide the things, i wrote on my thread what i did for a reason (i guess with my non native english it could be misleading?) trying to clarify it out, ppl who given me things for my collection know the few items and how i value them as much as anything else on my collection, for long time i didn't even look for replacements, but in these later days (last year bit more) i figured if i can replace it, why shouldn't i. But in the end the few things never been kept as a secret in anyway and i've told about them to very publicly when presenting my collection ingame or talking about my collection ingame to others.

    As for how i see things, i had some questions during last weeks "why i post things that aren't mine" on the thread such as Jasons crysta well, i post stuff there that i consider part of my collection, i don't see collection as things i put my name into, i see it as group of any items gathered for a reason, if i get someting like that given to me, i cherish it on my collection as my own for the history and memories sake, i think its better ppl to see these old things left in the game than let them get lost in the mists. This is what i learned from my q8 15^50 mentor Don corleone Cs, while back in the day he was building the great q8 15^50 collection he has, he also took some pieces signatured to friends for hes collection, he teached me that it doesn't matter what it says if its someone you know and you know you got it from friend wanting to help out on common goal, best you can do is give it some justice.

    Well, i hope that gave you the answers you needed its best i can do, even with our differences i do hope we can keep things civil and respectful for this collector community sake.

  • I appreciate the clarification. You and I will never agree that items customized to another can be incorporated into a collection you claiming to be yours, especially a structured one. If people are going to do that I think its important to have maximum transparency with it. Make it very clear those items are in your possession and not conceal who they are customized to. If you presenting the items in a way you cant see the custo lines and thus nobody can tell they signed by another it needs to be expressed another way. A simple "these ones friends contributed from there collections and still bare their signatures" would prevent any issues.

    IGN: Pyro Loves Lobsters

  • I'll keep this brief:

    Nope.

    If you want to "consider" items custo to others as part of your collection and cherish them, that's one thing.

    To post them on a "museum" as your own with the custo edited out is an entirely different thing. It's not right, and liking how the merch frames an item is no way to do justice to the item, its (former??) owner, or the history that led to the item being with you to begin with.


    I own multiple unconditional items customized by another player. Again putting my money where my mouth is, they have been posted elsewhere, unadulterated, with a message of gratitude attached. Doing things that way honors the game, its history and a friendship, not myself.

    You search relentlessly for items. You should try to find some self-awareness and consistency along the way.

  • I get where both sides is coming from, but (to quote the Mozarts of our time) in the end it doesn't even matter.

    Everything can be viewed differently, just because one person believes it should be this way and someone else another way doesn't mean he/she/IT (looking at you you scary clown, shoo =O) is right, and vice versa. Both can be right, and neither should be forced to do either.

    First we have example A:

    Person A, whom actively collect and cherish many rare paintings, have a super expensive van gogh in his collection of paintings. Person A wants the world to know who this awesome painter is and always displays it with a big sign next to it so you can see the name of the creator. Person A becomes most happy when visitors appreciate and enjoy learning about the person who painted it, and this is why Person A collect all the paintings.

    Then we have example B:

    Person A passed away and Person B inherits the painting. For Person B it holds more of a sentimental value and Person B don't really care much about who made it. Instead, Person B just displays it in their living room where both Person B and any visitors can enjoy it for What it is, not by Who it was made, and that's what makes Person B the most happy.

    While not everyone agrees with either Example A or Example B, both are fine since it all comes down to personal preference, which we are all allowed to have.

    In the end, both Person A and Person B is just hoping to bring some joy to the people viewing their collection, no matter how it is presented.

    To quote the Shakespeare of our time (bonus point if you know who said it:D) :

    “Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle.”

    Just my two cents (please give them back after, I'm broke ;()

    All the best wishes and I sincerely hope everyone is staying safe!

    // Coffee Man

  • I mean, really. Put everything together for yourself, Coffee, and make a movie scene out of it.

    Person B walks into a frame shop. Owner turns off his music and asks how he can help.

    Person B unveils whatever masterpiece you can imagine with a signature in the corner.

    Framer: Wow, what a beauty. I've read about this in books but couldn't imagine it ever coming to my shop.

    PB: Ya, it's great. I want a frame that is almost invisible around the top and sides but 6 inches tall on the bottom

    Framer: But that will cover the signature! Are you sure?

    PB: Yes, that's what I'd like

    Framer: How's about I insert a small glass window in the frame to keep the signature visible?

    PB: NO, I'd like you to cover the signature so no one can see it, please

    Framer: That's a very unusual request.

    PB: I'm a very unusual man. If you can't do this work I will find another framer.

    Framer: As you wish. But before we begin I just need to see the certificate of ownership.

    PB: I well ummm see I kinda borrowed it from a friend, maybe? So I don't have anything like that.

    Framer flips on "Walk" by Pantera and goes back to his chair.

    I hope you've found this brief play illuminating.

    Since you like Shakespeare 😉

  • Being single during Covid-19 pandemic is no joke I'm telling you 8| Also, we should get together for that sketch, that would be fucking hilarious :D

    All jokes aside, I still think that's personal preference and here's why:

    Just strictly speaking regarding this case that the thread was created for, I'm one of the people who have donated customized weapons to Pleikkis collection. I don't feel dishonored that he removed my name tag in any way, neither do I feel that he dishonored the game, nor it's history by doing so. From my point of view, based on my personal preference and what I feel is right and wrong, I don't think he did anything wrong.

    I know it's the one I gave him, I know he values it like any of his other items and he has on multiple occasions expressed his gratitude for me gifting it to him, so I don't see an issue? I personally don't need any credit for having paid 10g to some random dude or dudette in my GH, for me it's more important that people can have the chance to see my old toy with a lot of other cool toys. Again, this is how I, The Inglorious Coffee Bean (*note to self: should probably change nickname to that), feel and does not necessarily represent what the majority of legacy users feel. But it's one preference.

    Neither do I think you are wrong from your standpoint, since I could easily see how someone could interpret removing the name tag as disrespectful or shady even if I don't personally see it that way, hence personal preferences. However, in case of this scenario I also think that it's either my or any of the other donators job to raise an objection if We feel that he's been disrespectful or shady. If we haven't done that, then I would assume that he has our permission to do so. So even if you dislike it (which you ofcourse are allowed to do), it's not your right to call him out on this in my opinion.

    Also if we go into technicalities, Pleikki is currently the owner of these items even if my name is scribbled on them, since they were gifts. As such (atleast with my items) the items are not on loan and even if I may one day get them gifted back to me, I'm not expecting to do so. So he is entitled to do whatever he wants with them as he is the current owner of atleast my old items.

    So yes, you (and quite possibly the majority) may think it's a weird thing to do if he wants to frame away the name of the former owner/creator, but that does not automatically make it wrong is all I'm saying, it's just his preference. Just as you have your own :)

    // The Inglorious Coffee Bean (really digging it, nickname change confirmed 8))

    Edited 7 times, last by Coffee Man (December 14, 2020 at 3:51 PM).

  • I wasn't gonna post here anymore because its only flaming and no respect of anykind shown here, but i want to give my last cents and use similar metaphor with it.


    So, these items been on display on the original, main museum (collection thread) for several years without odd frames and signatures seen for everyone, then new side gallery is made, that has 1/250th of popularity of the original museum and it has copies of the items with different display, and the original pieces are still seen on that 250 times more popular original museum with signatures after all this for everyone to see.

    Seriously, if the things been posted without any reason to hide before, and still are on thread that has hundreds thousands times more views, i bet everyone whod care has seen it by now.

  • For me, the museum forum was supposed to be just that. A museum. A quiet place to display things and preserve the items and the history they carry, free of anything else. It's why this discussion isn't happening there.

    If you think it's just useless repetition, feel free to not participate.

    If, however, you are going to participate and do strange things, you can expect questions to be asked. There has been due respect and no flaming.

    Oh, Coffee, I never said you can't own items customized by another. In fact in one of my posts, I said I do exactly that. That's not what's being referred to.

  • I liked visiting the museum. I'm a small-time collector myself.

    I admire Pleikki for customizing some nice weapons as it is a great way to show dedication. However, I didn't like seeing the museum housing some items with questionable ownership (i.e. items with no clear borders, although I don't think it is against the rules made by the moderators... or should we suggest this new rule for the museum?). In my opinion the museum is for collections, not for screenshots. I like seeing items as they are, and with the gold prices too, which make items somewhat unique.

    I'm not against collecting stuff customized by others, and I think Pleikki actually owns the collection. In my opinion the solution is quite simple. If Pleikki would kindly re-make the images and show all the items with clear borders, then I guess everyone can be friends again. No time to make the images sounds like an excuse; doesn't collecting the items cost far more time than making the images?

    I like the collection Pleikki has. I just think it can be represented better.

    // The Inglorious Bluey

  • So...embarrassing *again* for you?

    Sorry, Pleikki, you've pissed in the pool. Expecting others to continue swimming in it is asking for a strange kind of "respect". :rolleyes:

    If you don't own an item (regardless of who is custo'd for), it's not part of your collection.

    There's all kinds of sloppiness in the original collections thread. This was our chance to do better -- to make a true museum for the game, as it exists now.

    Sorry.

    EDIT: Well said, Bluey . Disagree about the dedication bit but that's a minor sidestory.

    <3[PhD]<3

  • Oh, Coffee, I never said you can't own items customized by another. In fact in one of my posts, I said I do exactly that. That's not what's being referred to.

    I know, you quoted below:

    To post them on a "museum" as your own with the custo edited out is an entirely different thing. It's not right, and liking how the merch frames an item is no way to do justice to the item, its (former??) owner, or the history that led to the item being with you to begin with.


    I own multiple unconditional items customized by another player. Again putting my money where my mouth is, they have been posted elsewhere, unadulterated, with a message of gratitude attached. Doing things that way honors the game, its history and a friendship, not myself.

    That's why I responded with this segment:

    Just strictly speaking regarding this case that the thread was created for, I'm one of the people who have donated customized weapons to Pleikkis collection. I don't feel dishonored that he removed my name tag in any way, neither do I feel that he dishonored the game, nor it's history by doing so. From my point of view, based on my personal preference and what I feel is right and wrong, I don't think he did anything wrong.

    And that is exactly my point. That is how YOU feel about it. That is not how, for example, I feel about it, as proven with above quote.
    Hence why I think this whole thread is pointless, unless we want to start removing human rights entirely from this forum? Any takers?

    I liked visiting the museum. I'm a small-time collector myself.


    I admire Pleikki for customizing some nice weapons as it is a great way to show dedication. However, I didn't like seeing the museum housing some items with questionable ownership (i.e. items with no clear borders, although I don't think it is against the rules made by the moderators... or should we suggest this new rule for the museum?). In my opinion the museum is for collections, not for screenshots. I like seeing items as they are, and with the gold prices too, which make items somewhat unique.


    I'm not against collecting stuff customized by others, and I think Pleikki actually owns the collection. In my opinion the solution is quite simple. If Pleikki would kindly re-make the images and show all the items with clear borders, then I guess everyone can be friends again. No time to make the images sounds like an excuse; doesn't collecting the items cost far more time than making the images?


    I like the collection Pleikki has. I just think it can be represented better.


    // The Inglorious Bluey

    Again, that is what YOU think, it's YOUR personal preference for how it should be. You are absolutely allowed to Think that, but to try and Force someone to do it your way is a really dangerous thing my friend.


    If you don't like how something is done that's fine, but don't try to force your way onto someone else. Simple as that.

    “Our ability to reach unity in diversity will be the beauty and the test of our civilisation.”

    ― Mahatma Gandhi

  • I can't wait to see other adulterated and otherwise fictional posts in the Museum. Clearly that's what it's for 🙄.

    Sorry to resort to sarcasm but that's where we are.

    My original point stands: A museum is for truth, history and context.

    Edited once, last by Kabong (December 14, 2020 at 5:07 PM).

  • Oy. That Gandhi.


    Where did he get off being so anti-violence? And forcing it on everyone like that?

    Actually he didn't force the people to be non-violant, he simply (intentionally or unintentionally) forced them to accept that he himself would not use violence and then people decided to join him :) He were however promoting that the non-violent protesters would have to be prepared to receive violence and even die, since they were very aggresive verbally during their non-violent protests.

    #FunFacts

  • ...and yet we point to Gandhi (and not the guys with guns) as an example of our higher strivings. This implies an implicit framework by which certain ideas are judged as more highly developed than others.

    To me, this whole thing is simple:

    • Display things you own
    • Display them intact, as they exist, not just the convenient/flattering parts
    • Be honest

    These are basic standards. To pretend that there aren't is dishonest, lazy, and (if applied in the real world) dangerous.

    <3[PhD]<3

  • I wasn't gonna post here anymore because its only flaming and no respect of anykind shown here, but i want to give my last cents and use similar metaphor with it.


    So, these items been on display on the original, main museum (collection thread) for several years without odd frames and signatures seen for everyone, then new side gallery is made, that has 1/250th of popularity of the original museum and it has copies of the items with different display, and the original pieces are still seen on that 250 times more popular original museum with signatures after all this for everyone to see.

    You backing out because you have lost the argument. Plain and simple. Allow me to pick apart these ridiculous points.

    Yes previous posts in other threads without "odd frames" were no problem. You will notice nobody saying anything about those cause there was no problem.

    Shockingly a part of legacy that was created in September doesn't have as many views as beloved made over 4 years ago. Somehow in ur mind this is a justification for different standards. It doesn't matter if you miss represent items here because people can look back through 50 pages and find were they were posted before? Can you see what an utterly absurd defense this is? You have been shown respect but you don't deserve it if that's the best you can come up with.

    Your position is this: I did it honest once so please accept my dishonesty now.

    Nuff said.

    IGN: Pyro Loves Lobsters

  • I think for most legacy users it doesnt matter that much because They dont compete in „who has better collection”. But I guess for people being deep in it it feels Like cheating ? I personally wouldnt think or know that these items re custoed so this style might be a bit misleading for some of users but in general I liked the way it looks Pleikki and you got them on your account so technically as some 1 mentioned you own them. Maybe for future you could post these that re custoed with full description by other players and keep „100%” yours with new style. At the end of the day Only value of these items comes from nostalgia and I dont think that making history of these things will be enjoyed by next generations :P, so all the history preserving stuff is odd for me :D. I respect you all and Just wanted to add my few cents.

  • Why do we do what we do?

    Why do we collect things?

    To be the greatest individual?

    For fame and (artificially manipulated) likes from guild mates?

    Or is it to preserve the items’ histories and the names that have passed through our community?

    Which items did people donate to Pleikki’s collection? I ask because I genuinely can’t tell, and not simply to make a point. Without your names on them, your contributions to that part of history has been deleted and assimilated into Pleikki. Are you content knowing that your part in the history of those items has been erased and replaced by another who is now passively assuming the credit? Because he’s not acknowledged the part you played in those items’ histories in any way. Any new viewers of these pictures will not know the history. And I wonder if that’s the plan.

    Why do we do what we do? What’s it for? Quite simply, it is:

    To preserve the items and not let ego replace their history.

    Removing names from historically important items is exactly as Kabong said in his picture frame analogy. You can’t tell me that someone looks at a Rembrandt painting the same way if they don’t know it’s by Rembrandt. The name adds a layer of history and wonder. It’s a Rembrandt, but if the viewer doesn’t know that, it’s a painting. Now imagine it displayed next to some other competently done paintings, none of which have signatures. They all blur into one and the names of the contributors are lost forever. Rembrandt who? This is what’s happening here.

    All the work put in by the person whose name is written on the items to locate, chase down, fund and then acquire them is expunged from the record. Their role and influence in the community of the time and their influence deleted. Their history redacted. And in its place is one man who sees no issue with redacting history so, but worse than that, passes them off as his now. Taking the glory that isn’t his, and casually disrespecting the original owners to advance his own need to be recognised. You may have those items now, Pleikki, but you’re merely a cameo part in their history, yet by removing those names you’re claiming to be the starring role. And it is this which is so distasteful and disrespectful, and this which has caused the issues discussed in this thread.

    Now, Pleikki, add to this equation your claims of “greatest r7 15^50 collector the game has seen” and your “writing my name into the books of history” you have said while presenting your own items and explaining why you yourself customise weapons during other discussions on customisation. Adding your own name to the books of history but thinking nothing of removing everyone else’s? That’s not the third reason I gave of preserving the history. It’s not even preserving the items. It’s the first two reasons I laid out at the top of this reply.

    Speaking as someone who owns important and customised weapons myself, it’s actually offensive that you remove the names that matter from their history and pass these items’ histories off as yours.

  • It might seem that people have diffrent understanding on museum section. Maybe setting up rules could help to make it what you guys mentioned about not Only showing off but displaying rare items from this game and history. Rules could mention how screenshot should look Like etc.

  • Agreed. It doesn't really matter whether your item is uncustomized, custo'd to you, or custo'd to someone else. The same commonsense standards apply. Specifically, if an item is gonna be shown as part of your collection:

    • The item should be owned by you.
      • If you feel the need to fluff up "your" collection by displaying borrowed items, then the owner should be acknowledged. Possession is not the same as ownership. Credit should be given where credit is due.
    • The item should be exhibited intact, as it exists, including full information (item name, all stats, including extra damage from custo and custo name, as well as gold value).

    Pretty simple. Let's try to keep it real from here on out :thumbup:

  • I don't really care or have significant emotional investment in this thread as some obviously do.

    just gives me early morning chuckle thinking how pleikki hid names for collection to appear more worth

    And how on the other hand Frantic's shoes collection would be worthless with names removed

    Guess that's beauty of collecting shoes.

  • I want to add, I think it is odd that some people choose to customize scores of items, most of which they never use. I personally am not a big collector but I have chosen to customize items I use almost every time I get on to Guild Wars. Some seem to customize everything they own and it is kind of sad in my opinion. I have talked to people who have level 1 characters with req8s customized to them with no intent of ever playing on the toon and it saddens me. Just my 2c

  • I want to add, I think it is odd that some people choose to customize scores of items, most of which they never use. I personally am not a big collector but I have chosen to customize items I use almost every time I get on to Guild Wars. Some seem to customize everything they own and it is kind of sad in my opinion. I have talked to people who have level 1 characters with req8s customized to them with no intent of ever playing on the toon and it saddens me. Just my 2c

    agree, l've only customized my q8 14 50 Oni dags, and now l kinda regret it since l almost never use em...

  • Why do y'all hate on each other so much(some more than others)? We all love this game, so why can y'all just be happy for the people who keep the community alive? You are all such similar people, with a similar passion for Guildwars so why create unnecessary drama? Just enjoy the game, keep the community alive & stop judging people. If you don't like what someone posts, just move on with your life. There is no need to pass your judgement on to others. There are no set rules laid out by the admin team on Museum posting, so why should a few people decide to make some now & who made them admin? Coming back & seeing pointless threads like this just make me sad......

    "Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until they speak."

  • the collector probably didn't farm himself these items. He or she just bought them. Its just a selfish move to customize them.

    a metaphor in real life : you buy a beautiful painting that is unique and you put your signature on it. It ruins the masterpiece in addition to the fact that you did not paint it. Its same for that, you put names on items that you didn't farm yourself. so sad and so shameless. It ruins the beauty and the purity of the item and consequently the beauty and the purity of this game.

    Edited 3 times, last by mimironi (August 25, 2022 at 11:18 AM).