Museum posting and customization

Well, i 100% get that point, i did think about it when i decided to start posting things like that, but there are few simple reasons why i made it like this

1. While i was looking ways to present things, i walked to weaponsmith and saw how he shows item on my inventory, with the icon and 1st rows of stats, i liked that, which go to 2nd reason.

2. Merchant cuts the below lines out, so in order to do that, would need several crops and alot more work and time i sadly dont have right now.

3rd i saw its great for keeping images smaller, and everything looked clean and same then, while with below lines others being custod and others not the sizes were wrong and making images got harder.

Well, i hope it gave reason from my side for the new way, its simply because i like how it looks

I rly hope we can clear things up and forget all this nonsense.

My 2 cents, and steering clear of other unanswered issues raised by Pyro:

To me, it's not entirely appropriate to present artifacts in a museum in adulterated form. Museum should be about truth and history and context, not editing those things to make snips look better. We've always believed in the importance of items carrying the history of the game.

Consistency between words and actions being important, please note my few customized hammers are presented as such in my museum post.

Kabong

Maybe there is just a misunderstanding? That is the most charitable interpretation I can come up with.

As Pyro mentioned, your statement that you're posting "items from friends" that you hope to replace for yourself can be interpreted in many ways. The easiest/most likely interpretation of that statement is that you've borrowed items to help fill out your collection. This is obviously different from ownership.

Another easy interpretation is that maybe you bought them for a special "friend price" with the understanding that the item would be returned when you found your own version. Is this the case? If so, that is a rental -- not ownership.

An interpretation involving legitimate ownership is more difficult to reach. Again, that is because of how your statement is worded. Maybe a friend legitimately sold you an item that they want for themselves as a favor (to help you build your collection) and you'd like to pay them back by replacing that item. That's totally possible (and reasonable) but it doesn't fit easily with what you said. I'm trying to be charitable here so I'm asking whether ownership is the issue or if your statement itself is the issue.

Perhaps you're so confused by the reactions you're receiving because you don't understand the message that you're sending out. Maybe you're not addressing this issue because you don't understand that you may have misspoken. Or maybe you're not addressing it because you're hoping that people will be distracted and just forget about it. As Pyro said, some clarification of that statement would be helpful.

Well i will clarify things best i can.

So, while i did make this new way of presenting things, i noticed same issue as you did and noted the issue it may be causing, but then i also though that 99% of things been posted on collection thread or other threads in legacy allready before, even things "from friends" that i have with every line and signatures, so by now i though if someone cares and don't know what it is by now, they can easyly look it up or just simply ask me if they have questions, since the new way looked so much better to me it was thing worth doing.

I've never tried to hide the things, i wrote on my thread what i did for a reason (i guess with my non native english it could be misleading?) trying to clarify it out, ppl who given me things for my collection know the few items and how i value them as much as anything else on my collection, for long time i didn't even look for replacements, but in these later days (last year bit more) i figured if i can replace it, why shouldn't i. But in the end the few things never been kept as a secret in anyway and i've told about them to very publicly when presenting my collection ingame or talking about my collection ingame to others.

As for how i see things, i had some questions during last weeks "why i post things that aren't mine" on the thread such as Jasons crysta well, i post stuff there that i consider part of my collection, i don't see collection as things i put my name into, i see it as group of any items gathered for a reason, if i get someting like that given to me, i cherish it on my collection as my own for the history and memories sake, i think its better ppl to see these old things left in the game than let them get lost in the mists. This is what i learned from my q8 15^50 mentor Don corleone Cs, while back in the day he was building the great q8 15^50 collection he has, he also took some pieces signatured to friends for hes collection, he teached me that it doesn't matter what it says if its someone you know and you know you got it from friend wanting to help out on common goal, best you can do is give it some justice.

Well, i hope that gave you the answers you needed its best i can do, even with our differences i do hope we can keep things civil and respectful for this collector community sake.

I'll keep this brief:

Nope.

If you want to "consider" items custo to others as part of your collection and cherish them, that's one thing.

To post them on a "museum" as your own with the custo edited out is an entirely different thing. It's not right, and liking how the merch frames an item is no way to do justice to the item, its (former??) owner, or the history that led to the item being with you to begin with.

I own multiple unconditional items customized by another player. Again putting my money where my mouth is, they have been posted elsewhere, unadulterated, with a message of gratitude attached. Doing things that way honors the game, its history and a friendship, not myself.

You search relentlessly for items. You should try to find some self-awareness and consistency along the way.

I get where both sides is coming from, but (to quote the Mozarts of our time) in the end it doesn't even matter.

Everything can be viewed differently, just because one person believes it should be this way and someone else another way doesn't mean he/she/IT (looking at you you scary clown, shoo ) is right, and vice versa. Both can be right, and neither should be forced to do either.

First we have example A:

Person A, whom actively collect and cherish many rare paintings, have a super expensive van gogh in his collection of paintings. Person A wants the world to know who this awesome painter is and always displays it with a big sign next to it so you can see the name of the creator. Person A becomes most happy when visitors appreciate and enjoy learning about the person who painted it, and this is why Person A collect all the paintings.

Then we have example B:

Person A passed away and Person B inherits the painting. For Person B it holds more of a sentimental value and Person B don't really care much about who made it. Instead, Person B just displays it in their living room where both Person B and any visitors can enjoy it for What it is, not by Who it was made, and that's what makes Person B the most happy.

While not everyone agrees with either Example A or Example B, both are fine since it all comes down to personal preference, which we are all allowed to have.

In the end, both Person A and Person B is just hoping to bring some joy to the people viewing their collection, no matter how it is presented.

To quote the Shakespeare of our time (bonus point if you know who said it) :

“Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle.”

Just my two cents (please give them back after, I'm broke )

All the best wishes and I sincerely hope everyone is staying safe!

// Coffee Man

It's more like person B going out of their way to scratch the artist's name off the painting before hanging it, which is a weird thing to do.

Love ya Coffee, but you missed some bits of this one ❤️

I mean, really. Put everything together for yourself, Coffee, and make a movie scene out of it.

Person B walks into a frame shop. Owner turns off his music and asks how he can help.

Person B unveils whatever masterpiece you can imagine with a signature in the corner.

Framer: Wow, what a beauty. I've read about this in books but couldn't imagine it ever coming to my shop.

PB: Ya, it's great. I want a frame that is almost invisible around the top and sides but 6 inches tall on the bottom

Framer: But that will cover the signature! Are you sure?

PB: Yes, that's what I'd like

Framer: How's about I insert a small glass window in the frame to keep the signature visible?

PB: NO, I'd like you to cover the signature so no one can see it, please

Framer: That's a very unusual request.

PB: I'm a very unusual man. If you can't do this work I will find another framer.

Framer: As you wish. But before we begin I just need to see the certificate of ownership.

PB: I well ummm see I kinda borrowed it from a friend, maybe? So I don't have anything like that.

Framer flips on "Walk" by Pantera and goes back to his chair.

I hope you've found this brief play illuminating.

Since you like Shakespeare 😉

Being single during Covid-19 pandemic is no joke I'm telling you Also, we should get together for that sketch, that would be fucking hilarious

All jokes aside, I still think that's personal preference and here's why:

Just strictly speaking regarding this case that the thread was created for, I'm one of the people who have donated customized weapons to Pleikkis collection. I don't feel dishonored that he removed my name tag in any way, neither do I feel that he dishonored the game, nor it's history by doing so. From my point of view, based on my personal preference and what I feel is right and wrong, I don't think he did anything wrong.

I know it's the one I gave him, I know he values it like any of his other items and he has on multiple occasions expressed his gratitude for me gifting it to him, so I don't see an issue? I personally don't need any credit for having paid 10g to some random dude or dudette in my GH, for me it's more important that people can have the chance to see my old toy with a lot of other cool toys. Again, this is how I, The Inglorious Coffee Bean (*note to self: should probably change nickname to that), feel and does not necessarily represent what the majority of legacy users feel. But it's one preference.

Neither do I think you are wrong from your standpoint, since I could easily see how someone could interpret removing the name tag as disrespectful or shady even if I don't personally see it that way, hence personal preferences. However, in case of this scenario I also think that it's either my or any of the other donators job to raise an objection if We feel that he's been disrespectful or shady. If we haven't done that, then I would assume that he has our permission to do so. So even if you dislike it (which you ofcourse are allowed to do), it's not your right to call him out on this in my opinion.

Also if we go into technicalities, Pleikki is currently the owner of these items even if my name is scribbled on them, since they were gifts. As such (atleast with my items) the items are not on loan and even if I may one day get them gifted back to me, I'm not expecting to do so. So he is entitled to do whatever he wants with them as he is the current owner of atleast my old items.

So yes, you (and quite possibly the majority) may think it's a weird thing to do if he wants to frame away the name of the former owner/creator, but that does not automatically make it wrong is all I'm saying, it's just his preference. Just as you have your own

// The Inglorious Coffee Bean (really digging it, nickname change confirmed )

Quote from Pleikki

[...rambling admission of guilt...]

I tried to be charitable. I really did.

This must be so embarrassing for you.

I wasn't gonna post here anymore because its only flaming and no respect of anykind shown here, but i want to give my last cents and use similar metaphor with it.

So, these items been on display on the original, main museum (collection thread) for several years without odd frames and signatures seen for everyone, then new side gallery is made, that has 1/250th of popularity of the original museum and it has copies of the items with different display, and the original pieces are still seen on that 250 times more popular original museum with signatures after all this for everyone to see.

Seriously, if the things been posted without any reason to hide before, and still are on thread that has hundreds thousands times more views, i bet everyone whod care has seen it by now.

For me, the museum forum was supposed to be just that. A museum. A quiet place to display things and preserve the items and the history they carry, free of anything else. It's why this discussion isn't happening there.

If you think it's just useless repetition, feel free to not participate.

If, however, you are going to participate and do strange things, you can expect questions to be asked. There has been due respect and no flaming.

Oh, Coffee, I never said you can't own items customized by another. In fact in one of my posts, I said I do exactly that. That's not what's being referred to.

I liked visiting the museum. I'm a small-time collector myself.

I admire Pleikki for customizing some nice weapons as it is a great way to show dedication. However, I didn't like seeing the museum housing some items with questionable ownership (i.e. items with no clear borders, although I don't think it is against the rules made by the moderators... or should we suggest this new rule for the museum?). In my opinion the museum is for collections, not for screenshots. I like seeing items as they are, and with the gold prices too, which make items somewhat unique.

I'm not against collecting stuff customized by others, and I think Pleikki actually owns the collection. In my opinion the solution is quite simple. If Pleikki would kindly re-make the images and show all the items with clear borders, then I guess everyone can be friends again. No time to make the images sounds like an excuse; doesn't collecting the items cost far more time than making the images?

I like the collection Pleikki has. I just think it can be represented better.

// The Inglorious Bluey

So...embarrassing *again* for you?

Sorry, Pleikki, you've pissed in the pool. Expecting others to continue swimming in it is asking for a strange kind of "respect".

If you don't own an item (regardless of who is custo'd for), it's not part of your collection.

There's all kinds of sloppiness in the original collections thread. This was our chance to do better -- to make a true museum for the game, as it exists now.

Sorry.

EDIT: Well said, Bluey . Disagree about the dedication bit but that's a minor sidestory.

Quote from Kabong

Oh, Coffee, I never said you can't own items customized by another. In fact in one of my posts, I said I do exactly that. That's not what's being referred to.

I know, you quoted below:

Quote from Kabong

To post them on a "museum" as your own with the custo edited out is an entirely different thing. It's not right, and liking how the merch frames an item is no way to do justice to the item, its (former??) owner, or the history that led to the item being with you to begin with.

I own multiple unconditional items customized by another player. Again putting my money where my mouth is, they have been posted elsewhere, unadulterated, with a message of gratitude attached. Doing things that way honors the game, its history and a friendship, not myself.

That's why I responded with this segment:

Quote from Coffee Man

Just strictly speaking regarding this case that the thread was created for, I'm one of the people who have donated customized weapons to Pleikkis collection. I don't feel dishonored that he removed my name tag in any way, neither do I feel that he dishonored the game, nor it's history by doing so. From my point of view, based on my personal preference and what I feel is right and wrong, I don't think he did anything wrong.

And that is exactly my point. That is how YOU feel about it. That is not how, for example, I feel about it, as proven with above quote.
Hence why I think this whole thread is pointless, unless we want to start removing human rights entirely from this forum? Any takers?

Quote from Bluey

I liked visiting the museum. I'm a small-time collector myself.

I admire Pleikki for customizing some nice weapons as it is a great way to show dedication. However, I didn't like seeing the museum housing some items with questionable ownership (i.e. items with no clear borders, although I don't think it is against the rules made by the moderators... or should we suggest this new rule for the museum?). In my opinion the museum is for collections, not for screenshots. I like seeing items as they are, and with the gold prices too, which make items somewhat unique.

I'm not against collecting stuff customized by others, and I think Pleikki actually owns the collection. In my opinion the solution is quite simple. If Pleikki would kindly re-make the images and show all the items with clear borders, then I guess everyone can be friends again. No time to make the images sounds like an excuse; doesn't collecting the items cost far more time than making the images?

I like the collection Pleikki has. I just think it can be represented better.

// The Inglorious Bluey

Again, that is what YOU think, it's YOUR personal preference for how it should be. You are absolutely allowed to Think that, but to try and Force someone to do it your way is a really dangerous thing my friend.

If you don't like how something is done that's fine, but don't try to force your way onto someone else. Simple as that.

“Our ability to reach unity in diversity will be the beauty and the test of our civilisation.”

― Mahatma Gandhi

I can't wait to see other adulterated and otherwise fictional posts in the Museum. Clearly that's what it's for 🙄.

Sorry to resort to sarcasm but that's where we are.

My original point stands: A museum is for truth, history and context.

Oy. That Gandhi.

Where did he get off being so anti-violence? And forcing it on everyone like that?

Quote from Captain Krompdown

Oy. That Gandhi.

Where did he get off being so anti-violence? And forcing it on everyone like that?

Actually he didn't force the people to be non-violant, he simply (intentionally or unintentionally) forced them to accept that he himself would not use violence and then people decided to join him He were however promoting that the non-violent protesters would have to be prepared to receive violence and even die, since they were very aggresive verbally during their non-violent protests.

#FunFacts

...and yet we point to Gandhi (and not the guys with guns) as an example of our higher strivings. This implies an implicit framework by which certain ideas are judged as more highly developed than others.

To me, this whole thing is simple:

• Display things you own
• Display them intact, as they exist, not just the convenient/flattering parts
• Be honest

These are basic standards. To pretend that there aren't is dishonest, lazy, and (if applied in the real world) dangerous.

Fair enough, those are sound arguments and I respect your view on the matter! I will not chase this subject any further

Just remember kids...

The correct formula to find your adjusted e-peen size is ((L*D)+(W/G))/(A^2).
Length times Diameter plus Weight over Girth divided by Angle of the tip squared.

And as you can see, having your name scribbled over it or not doesn't affect the outcome.

Agreed. It doesn't really matter whether your item is uncustomized, custo'd to you, or custo'd to someone else. The same commonsense standards apply. Specifically, if an item is gonna be shown as part of your collection:

• The item should be owned by you.
  
  • If you feel the need to fluff up "your" collection by displaying borrowed items, then the owner should be acknowledged. Possession is not the same as ownership. Credit should be given where credit is due.
• The item should be exhibited intact, as it exists, including full information (item name, all stats, including extra damage from custo and custo name, as well as gold value).

Pretty simple. Let's try to keep it real from here on out

I don't really care or have significant emotional investment in this thread as some obviously do.

just gives me early morning chuckle thinking how pleikki hid names for collection to appear more worth

And how on the other hand Frantic's shoes collection would be worthless with names removed

Guess that's beauty of collecting shoes.

Hahahaha Oni of Demonslaying

I sum up 2 pages in one line :

Tldr : pleik isn't showing the custo cause it's faster to crop on toshop !

Peace, all items matter hahaha

Ps : custo or not q7/8 perf are still giving me boners

Quote from Oni of Demonslaying

just gives me early morning chuckle thinking how pleikki hid names for collection to appear more worth

Quote from Blind Was My Fury

Hahahaha Oni of Demonslaying

I laughed at this too!

Quote from since 05

I want to add, I think it is odd that some people choose to customize scores of items, most of which they never use. I personally am not a big collector but I have chosen to customize items I use almost every time I get on to Guild Wars. Some seem to customize everything they own and it is kind of sad in my opinion. I have talked to people who have level 1 characters with req8s customized to them with no intent of ever playing on the toon and it saddens me. Just my 2c

agree, l've only customized my q8 14 50 Oni dags, and now l kinda regret it since l almost never use em...

Why do y'all hate on each other so much(some more than others)? We all love this game, so why can y'all just be happy for the people who keep the community alive? You are all such similar people, with a similar passion for Guildwars so why create unnecessary drama? Just enjoy the game, keep the community alive & stop judging people. If you don't like what someone posts, just move on with your life. There is no need to pass your judgement on to others. There are no set rules laid out by the admin team on Museum posting, so why should a few people decide to make some now & who made them admin? Coming back & seeing pointless threads like this just make me sad......

good read you guys, honestly who gives a f.

the collector probably didn't farm himself these items. He or she just bought them. Its just a selfish move to customize them.

a metaphor in real life : you buy a beautiful painting that is unique and you put your signature on it. It ruins the masterpiece in addition to the fact that you did not paint it. Its same for that, you put names on items that you didn't farm yourself. so sad and so shameless. It ruins the beauty and the purity of the item and consequently the beauty and the purity of this game.