Speed Clear and pcon shortage discussion

Quote from dubbleclick

I'd ask if we're going to see a solution to the pcon shortage induced by the ban of bots. Lunars fortunes are currently going for 35e a stack if you're lucky enough to find any, if this persists through easter the entirety of high end pve will literally die within a year. I mean it surely can't be that much effort to implement a pcon vendor to compensate for it, if they don't want pve to die, surely?

Considering they sold 20e when ecto was 7k (140plats) and now ecto is 2.5k (making 35e = 87,5plats) i dont see atleast rise in price

Quote from dubbleclick

And why did the ectos drop that much in price? That coinincidentally happened exactly with the bots being gone. Not to mention, platinum to ecto rate is utterly irrelevant. Nobody, literally nobody has his money in cash. The average doa player would need what, 20 storage accounts just to keep all that cash?

Also, last year lunars were literally thrown after you for 10e a stack during and after the event. 20e/stack is the price you see at the end of the year, not at the start.

Ofc bots have their pros and cons for market, but clearly the market can live without them, its not a big problem. A little more difficult with pvp matches, but if Anet introduces henchie commands to ra\ha\codex\jq etc, then the game will not need bots at all.

In my opinion updates (at least QOL`s) are much more important then bots question, and first of all we must discuss this issue.
I hope Kevin will be able to communicate with them, and we will have opportunities to fix bugs and make changes to the game, like Anet allready have done at Bill's expense.

Quote from dubbleclick

Yeah... except for speedclear players who now have to pay more for pcons than they make money. I currently sink roughly 150e into pcons per evening - which used to be more like 30e a year ago. This is not sustainable for high end pve. Not to mention that it takes ages in kamadan to find pcons in the first place - and how in 2 months there probably won't be any lunars left to buy.

Just a question...

When was the last time you did the festival events and farmed ANY fortunes yourself?

Blame a lack of bots, but, its really a lack of everyone...

Quote from Looney

Just a question...

When was the last time you did the festival events and farmed ANY fortunes yourself?

Blame a lack of bots, but, its really a lack of everyone...

obviously the big issue is the lack of players but it was fine because bots used to compensate that , but anet threats his game like it wasnt dead somehow and now economy is fucked and a big community of gw may die because of it

EDIT : some things about that topic has been discussed already here Are all bots finally gone?

personally i think when anet broke the bots, the botters/rmt ppl got pissed and have been merching piles of previously ill-gotten ectos.

If you rely solely on buying cons and never farm any youself, who has been contributing to the problem of a shrinking supply?

Quote from Looney

personally i think when anet broke the bots, the botters/rmt ppl got pissed and have been merching piles of previously ill-gotten ectos.

If you rely solely on buying cons and never farm any youself, who has been contributing to the problem of a shrinking supply?

They make loads of in game money so they don't want to do the dirty job of farming their own pcons lol.

Besides, bots are back, they just missed one event ... So no need to go crazy, you'll get your sweet pcons for cheap during the next event

Quote from dubbleclick

It's a lack of players who farm them to make money, because disproportionally many need them.
Also, you'd have to farm the event 24/7 on like TWENTY accounts just to fill your own pcon needs for a year. Sorry, but I don't have 20 accounts, 40 hands and 48 hours per day.

When a game loses 98% of its active playerbase that typically introduces some challenges to the economy. For now, bots somewhat balanced that out. But it's honestly time that arenanet just introduces everlasting versions, or vendors to close the gaps.

Ok so just to be sure i read that correctly...

"I use the pcons of 20 ppl in one year, but, cba to help with the supply"

I'm sure you all want a pcon MERCHANT not TRADER just for constant supply at set prices.

Give me my dryad bow merchant, vs merchant, bds merchant, etc since we're asking.

Oh and el cottontail should be useable in explorables, the animations already exist for summoning stones.

this thread is going a bit off where it started to aim.

My two cents:

If scs get harder since ppl can't get their pcons that will result in a rise in rare skin items wich will balance out with the additional cost of pcons.

Maybe the scers will discover that gw is more than rinse and repeat three dungeons/areas and find joy in that.

Maybe they will try to find new ways to do things without pcon.

Maybe this will get ppl back to focus that gw isn't a game like aion, where you buff yourself to immortality pretty much. If that's what you are looking for - play aion. I mean you can do pretty much anything in hm with henchies without pcons. Maybe you'll have to actually think and not use 8 permas running through everything and killing the boss - this is certainly not how the developers intended thos so I see no reason whatsoever for them to change anything. Maybe you won't be able to ball 80 lvl 28 mobs in hm and AoE spike them to death in 3 seconds - do you really think that's how DoA Hm was designed?

General strategy in life: be autonomous. If you rely on others for what you want to do - might be one day the others change their ways of doing and suddenly you're screwed. I mean what kind of mentality is that: There aren't enough others who farm pcons so I can buy them cheap! Let's blame Anet for it!

No bots is absolutely the right way.

Sorry - I couldn't hold to myself anymore reading all this here...

Quote from dubbleclick

Yeah that has worked fabulously well so far. Oh wait, it didn't? Oops. Pcons are 5x the price of what they used to be, comparatively, with bots.

Ofc not. Point is years of heavy overfarming of rare skins with easy fast runs due to low pcons prices. That's why...

Quote from dubbleclick

The market is oversaturated with rare items at this point, it's hard to buy or sell anything at reasonable prices at this point.

You're writing my arguments. Market will take months or years to react to that.

Quote from dubbleclick

Some will, sure, most will probably quit. The items are still obtainable so records can't be reset, but records are out of the question because we can't afford them, so where's the point in even playing? Not to mention, personally, I'm not going to play gw without cons and pcons. It's a very slow game showing it's age. Without pcons, it's even slower.

I need my diesel cheap. I mean I need my sportscar eating 13liters/100km. I won't drive without. It's just too slow. I also want the bougatti to be cheaper! I mean come on this porsche is so slow. I will go protest now. The government needs to tackle the issue. I want my bougatti. Or I'm out. Fuel taxes are outrageous. Fix them or I'm out.
Ban child labour? No way. I want my sweater at c&a for 5€. If they ban child labour - I want a vendor for sweaters at the same price. I won't pay more. If they ban child labour they need to tackle that issue.

When the game was alive and there was 98% more population than now, pcons etc were more expensive than now. And people didnt spam it 24/7, also getting money was harder. Idk if someone remember when you did an SC, every1 used to put 1,5k plat in the floor for the guy using conset. Nowadays nop.

No1 talking about the people that spam consets 24/7 like if they were chewing gums, and they are doing SCs that doesnt give money at all 99,9% of the time, so they are just wasting money. And how they obtain the money to buy those consets etc? Runing bots, its sad, but thats what 80% of the Sc community do.

PD: Maybe Consets should be cheaper, but people have to know the same pcons they use to do highend stuff people can use it also to level up a charr or do a cooperative in NM, and make the game looks much easier that what it is already (with 7 heroes op builded etc).

So maybe they should make consets & pcons only spameable in Dungeons and Elite Missions. Put a Pcons npc, and make it cheaper to buy consets.

the thing is tho, people have become so spoiled by any buffs,OP builds that people dont really know how to play good. Before the pcon hysteria we didnt have cons fow,uw,deep,urgoz,tombs. They want to play gw with as little effort as possible. Most people are so used to use pcons/cons if anything remotely challenging come their way.

oh the humanity that your farming only lasts for 2weeks worth of cons/pcons. I cant possible farm the mats myself every 2weeks or so can I?

Izzy,yeah most people dont even bother to give anything to any randoms.

People always complain about how they want bots removed from gw,and now its gone people looses their mind over it, and its not because bots are finally gone. No,its because pcons/cons are more expensive. Oh no, I have to spend more platt or ectos for cons. Gw was functioning awesome before pcons/cons came into play as much it has the last decade or so.

most people that do sc have tons of ectos and arms so they have the money anyways.

Quote from Izzy

Idk if someone remember when you did an SC, every1 used to put 1,5k plat in the floor for the guy using conset. Nowadays nop.

We were more supportive and not used to using them, seeing this as a weakness and not a quality of play.

The difficulty today in pve is ridiculous if we played XXXX hours. But it is even more ridiculous to play builds that do not work without consumables.

The fee was not stuck at 1k5 it was anywhere between 1k2 and 1k5.

Cons were sold between 7 to 12k and ectos were like 7 8 to 12k ea.

Yet at the same time pcosn were at least 25e a stack so between 175 and 300k which would translate in 120e per stack as of current rate. Fact is since ppl got replaced by bots, pcons got way cheaper but the dude complaining here probably didn't play pre 2012.

Quote from Izzy

No1 talking about the people that spam consets 24/7 like if they were chewing gums, and they are doing SCs that doesnt give money at all 99,9% of the time, so they are just wasting money. And how they obtain the money to buy those consets etc? Runing bots, its sad, but thats what 80% of the Sc community do.

You forgot to mention that they sometimes zone in, see that some trash didn't spawn as wanted resign right off the bat, right after having popped a full set of cons + pcons on each of their toons.

In fow, uw and doa mainly.

But what can you do , I've been on their Ts's and since 2016 and ownwards, the sc community is mainly composed of pot heads who only play gw1 ,smoke weed during their free time and wank themselves over their in game accomplishments, deeming anyone not part of the sc community as worthless trash.

Not that I judge them, idc about their way of life, but I'm just pointing that it could be added.

Also, the market is flooded with rare items, yet they have never been as expensive as the price they are sold at atm.

I reckon that up to 2014 it was nearly impossible to sell a q9 eblade for 120e at spammadan because it was deemed to be overpriced.

People want huge in game profit for being the last ones to exploit an overly farmed place in a dead game. L O L

Quote from MaxBorken

Could I just point out that whilst the subject of P-cons and the wider economy as a whole is a worthy topic of discussion, that’s not what this thread is titled.

I’m going to grab the wheel a bit and yank it to the right just a tad to get us back on track, away from p-cons and back onto what we’d ask Anet.

Exactly!

Mb we can make exel doc with actual questions, like it was on reddit and add it to first message on thread?

Quote from Izzy

When the game was alive and there was 98% more population than now, pcons etc were more expensive than now. And people didnt spam it 24/7, also getting money was harder. Idk if someone remember when you did an SC, every1 used to put 1,5k plat in the floor for the guy using conset. Nowadays nop.

No1 talking about the people that spam consets 24/7 like if they were chewing gums, and they are doing SCs that doesnt give money at all 99,9% of the time, so they are just wasting money. And how they obtain the money to buy those consets etc? Runing bots, its sad, but thats what 80% of the Sc community do.

PD: Maybe Consets should be cheaper, but people have to know the same pcons they use to do highend stuff people can use it also to level up a charr or do a cooperative in NM, and make the game looks much easier that what it is already (with 7 heroes op builded etc).

So maybe they should make consets & pcons only spameable in Dungeons and Elite Missions. Put a Pcons npc, and make it cheaper to buy consets.

This , whatever happened to not needing pcons , used to do fow or uw sc run without those all the time , now you see peoples do run and you can barely see anything since there is so many pcons used it's kinda funny especially the auto clicking one that can't even be bothered to manually reapply them.

Quote from dubbleclick

I'd like to see you propose using slower cars to the F1 scene - to compete in the same category as faster cars.

Finally, a reasonable idea.

lol.

Did you ever see them complain about fuel prize? See the difference?

How many percent of population claim to be in the F1? How many of the gw community seems to be in the SC community? Another difference? Maybe reason for the disproportionate PCon pricing?

Quote from dubbleclick

I'd ask if we're going to see a solution to the pcon shortage induced by the ban of bots. Lunars fortunes are currently going for 35e a stack if you're lucky enough to find any, if this persists through easter the entirety of high end pve will literally die within a year. I mean it surely can't be that much effort to implement a pcon vendor to compensate for it, if they don't want pve to die, surely?

I hope my post don't get deleted and sorry i can't hold but there is an easy solution if you want your unlimited stock of pcons back,

find a programmer that knows good assembly and knows how to reverse engineering the game, pay him a small fee to correct the library (API) that most of the scripts use (bots) and release it to the public for free on the well knowed botting forum (don't use it just release it to the public) and leave the rest of the ppl do their job and farm for you, problem solved, there is ppl/members here in the forum that they are active and got involved with writing the API's so not hard to find help if you want.

Quote from dubbleclick

For one I wouldn't need to pay anyone to do that for me when it's my job. Second, GWCA is public. Third, this doesn't change anything about bots being banned and certainly doesn't bring Canthan New Year any closer again. For this year, it's over and it's now on ArenaNet to put ten minutes of effort into doing what they should've done 7 years ago.

With that in mind that you are a professional programmer and you kinda knew what was going to happen if ppl didn't had an updated API i think you use the shortage of lunars as an excuse to accomplish a change to the game that it will be a huge advantage to your needs, cause it's not more that 4 hours to fix the api for an experienced programmer and ppl will bot anyways even after bans or something else was going on behind the scenes ???

Quote from Renkotsu

This , whatever happened to not needing pcons , used to do fow or uw sc run without those all the time , now you see peoples do run and you can barely see anything since there is so many pcons used it's kinda funny especially the auto clicking one that can't even be bothered to manually reapply them.

coming from the guy that was very recently offering 4e for a gate of desolation mission run. something doesnt compute here

Quote from dubbleclick

I'm using it as an excuse to accomplish a change that will be a huge advantage to my needs? You mean to the needs of everyone except for botters, I guess.

And I don't know in what world you live in, but it takes considerably longer than four hours to "fix an API" that you've never used or worked on, in a game that you've never attached a debugger to. No matter your level of experience, working with new technologies/software will always take time, plenty more than it is to people who already use and develop it. Not to mention, again, GWCA was fully functional during the time but plenty of people who DID use it to bot, simply got banned again and again. Guess you've missed that part.

But completely aside of that, is your solution to a skewed event system that doesn't work in this small playerbase seriously "develop tools to give to the public so they can make bots and farm events!"?

To your needs and the needs of sc'ers cause i don't know ppl other than sc'ers that play the game in a normal way and doing dungeons etc and have the needs of hundreds pcons stacks and yes thats my solution for a skewed event system if you want em so much cause if ANet wanted to make the change they would be already done it, imagine if they add a pcons npc ppl will start asking for another 100 updates/futures and fixes, and don't forget there is only one developer working on GW and not full time.

Quote from Arcana Force

To your needs and the needs of sc'ers cause i don't know ppl other than sc'ers that play the game in a normal way and doing dungeons etc and have the needs of hundreds pcons stacks and yes thats my solution for a skewed event system if you want em so much cause if ANet wanted to make the change there would be already done it, imagine if they add a pcons npc ppl will start asking for another 100 updates/futures and fixes.

"This thing hasnt been chanced in years why would it be changed now?" is always a very good argument! /s
The point is it wouldnt really hurt anyone to have free Pcons, would it? You think the game is too easy with cons/pcons? PRO TIP: DONT USE THEM!
The SC community is at this point used to being able to pop them, that doesnt mean what they do is easy AT ALL (which can be seen on the regular when someone with only "vanilla" pve experience starts diving into scs), and going back to runs without them would feel like a huge step backwards and slow/boring.

Quote from Joker

"This thing hasnt been chanced in years why would it be changed now?" is always a very good argument! /s
The point is it wouldnt really hurt anyone to have free Pcons, would it? You think the game is too easy with cons/pcons? PRO TIP: DONT USE THEM!
The SC community is at this point used to being able to pop them, that doesnt mean what they do is easy AT ALL (which can be seen on the regular when someone with only "vanilla" pve experience starts diving into scs), and going back to runs without them would feel like a huge step backwards and slow/boring.

I'm just stating the facts here, i also want updates/fixes and all to be happen to the game but let's be logical here if someone asks for a pcon npc someone else will ask for a weapon mod npc or another change and we go with an endless chain of updates for a game that probably isn't worth the time for ANet to invest cause there are not going to make any money, let's not forget that all the latest updates that we got was a side project of one developer out of love for the game at his free time.

so we just stop caring and accept things without trying to make them better because its unlikely. got it. solid plan. /s

I don't see how having a pcon vendor would hurt the non-SC community. It's not like what we are doing is inhibiting however you want to play the game, right?

Also, your comparison of a pcon vendor to a weapon mod NPC isn't a good one, weapon mods are available in the game year round for anyone to go farm. (Most) pcons can only be farmed during certain times which is why we're running into the supply issue now.

How many times we saw a reddit post for some kind of update or a fix that ppl asked ? who can say what is most important for the game ?

every player in the game has different needs and maybe plays only a specific mode,

dubbleclick says that pcons npc is important for sc's, Izzy could say that pvp is important aspect of the game and ANet needs to fix it,

Red Fireball could say that economy is also important and needs fixing, you see what i did there ?

I'm all in for changes man, i will be more than happy to write letters/vote and even protest on reddit for fixing the game but at the same time with ANets approach with community communication that is nearly 0% for Guild Wars i'm just a realist and i accept the fact that the game isn't going to get updated.

Quote from AliPlusPlus

I don't see how having a pcon vendor would hurt the non-SC community. It's not like what we are doing is inhibiting however you want to play the game, right?

Also, your comparison of a pcon vendor to a weapon mod NPC isn't a good one, weapon mods are available in the game year round for anyone to go farm. (Most) pcons can only be farmed during certain times which is why we're running into the supply issue now.

i just took an example from reddit posts with futures or fixes that ppl were asking, you can put any other kind of future you want instead of the weapon mod npc, why pcons is more important than pvp ? let's fix pvp instead.

Yeah I understand that, and I'd also love all of those changes to be made. I see what you did there, it's not addressing my point though. I was mainly aiming at the toxicity towards people who do SC's, or labeling us all as needing bots and not playing the game the "right" way or something.