The truth about Pre-Nerf

Quote from Unholy

When you say current/postnerf, do you mean post-deathbane bug fix? I've mentioned it somewhere on Legacy before, but shortly after (within the first week or so) of the weapon contest skins being added to the game, I managed to pull a req9 emerald blade from kathandrax. To my surprise, it had no inscription...and it also had a deathbane mod.

These update notes from 2008 refer to this old bug.

Nowadays, of course, I regret having sold it back then (for 100k+100e, a mere fraction of what a correct one would've been at the time), but it's out there somewhere. I may have a screenshot of it on an old flash drive, but that will take some digging. Will get back to you on that.

But I was under the impression that this sort of bug could still happen? Maybe not exclusively with/because of a deathbane mod, but just in general? Is that not the case?

Edit: I assume this is what happened to the Obsidian/Runic Pleikki mentioned as well.

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Ah yes, good call, this definitely sparked an old memory, I can see this being the root cause to some of the more rare skins and potentially the more common ones as well.

Not to lose track of the original OP's question.....

Quote from Montrell

Has anyone had a Naked Sword drop for them that would only normally drop in insc? Or is that still up for debate

It obviously is still up for debate lol, but from a "drops today" perspective, this is one of those things I think we would all want to see happen in front of our own eyes to be able to confirm the possibility (and if it does, maybe the deathbane issue was never fully resolved).

I think there was also clean eternal blade. Possibly with tooburns

i dont remeber having that sword, i probably just finance it for zephyr that's it.

But yeah ... zephyr is MIA for over 3 years now even on facebook he doesn't exist anymore

@Montrell

Buried in old screenshot's from 2008. I remember being offered it and 100e was slightly cheaper than a regular one at the time. Never hit accept, big regrets. But at least we got a first hand photo of such an item

Anybody know where this ended up?

Quote from PyroLobster

@Montrell

Buried in old screenshot's from 2008. I remember being offered it and 100e was slightly cheaper than a regular one at the time. Never hit accept, big regrets. But at least we got a first hand photo of such an item

Anybody know where this ended up?

is this one anything? recently picked up

Quote from nik

is this one anything? recently picked up

interesting in this one too, never seen before.

Is q9 tac summit warlord shield 45w/e 20% disease prenerf?

Forgot a picuture lol

Quote from Montrell

Is q9 tac summit warlord shield 45w/e 20% disease prenerf?

Forgot a picuture lol

no.

Is this a Pre Nerf Staff?

I've had it for as long as I can remember and has no HSR.

Quote from Forty Second Rogue

Is this a Pre Nerf Staff?

I've had it for as long as I can remember and has no HSR.

Yes it is. Both the lack of the white HSR text at the top and the 15% HCT inherent mod are clear indications.

Quote from San

Yes it is. Both the lack of the white HSR text at the top and the 15% HCT inherent mod are clear indications.

Thanks, while the stats suck, I stopped from merching it multiple times , stopped because it looked unlike anything else.

(skin sws)

(skin summit)

I buy those few months ago and can't find any info about the second one, can someone enlighten me ?

For the 1st it was the prenerf version of this one https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Minaar%27s_Trouble

Thanks

can you mod the second with the standard prefix and suffix hammer mods on top? is ene and hp actually in effect when equipping it? nice items!

I heard there had been a HoD hammer (way less popular than the HoD sword) - could this be the one?

Just found this on one of my hero.

Quote from Sadist Illusionist

Just found this on one of my hero.

That's a beauty.

Quote from Mango

(skin sws)

(skin summit)

I buy those few months ago and can't find any info about the second one, can someone enlighten me ?

For the 1st it was the prenerf version of this one https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Minaar%27s_Trouble

Thanks

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So I was able to find this old guide from 2005, and it does have the reward from Shiverpeak Stragglers being a q5 13-20 War Hammer. It doesn't list out the stats unfortunately, but I suspect it is from this quest.

Quote from Sadist Illusionist

Just found this on one of my hero.

Blind Was My Fury

Quote from Sadist Illusionist

Just found this on one of my hero.

HELLO SIR HOW ARE YOU TODAY ? PLEASE IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN TAKING ALL MY MONEY FOR THIS STAFF I AM ALSO INTRESTED 🤪 I WILL GIVE A FREE REPLACEMENT FOR YOUR HERO TOO ! 🎆🎆🎆

Quote from Red Fireball

can you mod the second with the standard prefix and suffix hammer mods on top? is ene and hp actually in effect when equipping it? nice items!

I heard there had been a HoD hammer (way less popular than the HoD sword) - could this be the one?

No, that is not the HoD hammer. The only one I know of is in PHD still.

Quote from Blind Was My Fury

Quote from Sadist Illusionist

Just found this on one of my hero.

HELLO SIR HOW ARE YOU TODAY ? PLEASE IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN TAKING ALL MY MONEY FOR THIS STAFF I AM ALSO INTRESTED 🤪 I WILL GIVE A FREE REPLACEMENT FOR YOUR HERO TOO ! 🎆🎆🎆

No Bueno my friend. Talked to Razah and he threatened to not play Rt if i took that staff away. Xandra and I are not on speaking terms and Zei Ri, well he only hangout with the cool kids.

Hey !

I guess its collector items but are they pre nerf ?

ty =)

Bone staffs atleast prenerf and probably from collector, and the vamp mod on bow is prenerf, on bow itself since it has no gold value id guess its from quest reward

i have running an auction and there was a question from someone. is this pre nerf or from zchest ? . i bought it few years ago and doesn't know exacly.

thx in advance for help

You bought it from me back then. The guy I got it from said he looted it sometime after 2009, meaning it's not prenerf. But I wonder if there is some kind of indication that differentiates a postnerf from a prenerf in this case? Red Fireball  Pleikki

In Q9 there is no way to definitively tell if it's pre or post nerf

it is prenerf as in means of it being impossible to drop anymore. but it isn't prenerf as in means it dropped from one of the keyless chests.

to differentiate a prenerf the gold value at times holds a clue, on q9 that does not help however. a general gold sword at q12 a max damage at a value below 144 would point it to be prenerf, at q13 even a value below 188 would point that out. on crystas however any value below 204g would point it out to be prenerf, since today it can only drop in gold rarity from chests with an unid range starting at 50g. for same reasons on q8 every crystalline would be prenerf. and also any damage below 15-21 would point it to be prenerf.

Quote from San

You bought it from me back then. The guy I got it from said he looted it sometime after 2009, meaning it's not prenerf. But I wonder if there is some kind of indication that differentiates a postnerf from a prenerf in this case? Red Fireball  Pleikki

Only if gold value would be so high that it only couldve been possible from keyless chest. Im sure mr Red has data from zchest and HoH chest gold values too 😆

This sword clearly not prenerf tho

Quote from Red Fireball

it is prenerf as in means of it being impossible to drop anymore

Why can't zchest drop one of these today? It drops Q9 Cry and on occasion a wep without an inscription?

Quote from PyroLobster

Quote from Red Fireball

it is prenerf as in means of it being impossible to drop anymore

Why can't zchest drop one of these today? It drops Q9 Cry and on occasion a wep without an inscription?

the bug with the deathbane mod leading to martial items that should have had a insc slot ending without one has been fixed some years ago. today only staves still present this behaviour. so BDS can still drop without insc slot, but crysta not. this is my status

Quote from Red Fireball

Quote from PyroLobster

Why can't zchest drop one of these today? It drops Q9 Cry and on occasion a wep without an inscription?

the bug with the deathbane mod leading to martial items that should have had a insc slot ending without one has been fixed some years ago. today only staves still present this behaviour. so BDS can still drop without insc slot, but crysta not. this is my status

To my knowledge, the bug only made them much more common to drop, but clean drops werent exclusive to deathbane.

Ive bought many cleans from zchest and random drops etc over the years and ppl selling have Several times claimed it was recent drop. So i belive they still drop just extreamly rarely.

Quote from Red Fireball

Quote from PyroLobster

Why can't zchest drop one of these today? It drops Q9 Cry and on occasion a wep without an inscription?

the bug with the deathbane mod leading to martial items that should have had a insc slot ending without one has been fixed some years ago. today only staves still present this behaviour. so BDS can still drop without insc slot, but crysta not. this is my status

Wasn’t there just an obsidian edge not too long ago for sale that the seller claimed got dropped recently?
It was « naked » as well.

This belongs in the same category, doesnt it?

Quote from Pleikki

Quote from Red Fireball

the bug with the deathbane mod leading to martial items that should have had a insc slot ending without one has been fixed some years ago. today only staves still present this behaviour. so BDS can still drop without insc slot, but crysta not. this is my status

To my knowledge, the bug only made them much more common to drop, but clean drops werent exclusive to deathbane.

Ive bought many cleans from zchest and random drops etc over the years and ppl selling have Several times claimed it was recent drop. So i belive they still drop just extreamly rarely.

100% agree with this. I have personally pulled non staff cleans from zchest when I got max rank a year or so ago. Was purposely looking for examples to prove you can get a "OS looking" gold ball hammer. Never got one but did get a couple examples. I'd have to search screenshots but I recall not keeping them because they were annoyingly core skins that can drop OS clean elsewhere so was nothing special as couldn't be identified as "zchest cleans".

would love to see screens of recent drops - my status is based on observation and update notes. Some friends and I collected screens of the bugged weapons on here over the past years and all the recent drops that surfaced in the PC section were staves. and we collected about 30-50 - I'd have to count. so if anyone has a screen of one freshly dropping - please! can you check your screens PyroLobster ? (I'd have a q3 dwarf shield for you as reward in my inventory )

the problem in bits is that in order to prove anything you would need a screen with f9 and equip pack shown, no heroes in party, the chat log entry of the thing dropping with time stamp plus only a single weapon of that name in inventory plus /age showing. only then it'd be safe I think (idk if I might have missed a way to fake it)

Or simply get items without a inscription slot, with skins + attributes exclusive to the Z-chest (PvE chests have been known to fall even today without a inscription slot, as well as chests at the end of zones/donjons).

For example, a Ghostly with SR, ES or Inspi. attributes would do the trick. Unfortunately, i don't have a list of skins/attributes exclusive to Z-chest.

Cute for the obby edge - yes it surfaced here recently, but it was ancient.

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Neutral_CH no, the deathbane bug leading to noninsc martial weapons was fixed here https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20081009 which was about a year after the introduction of the zchest.

also I repeat: STAVES do still drop bugged insc. just martials TO MY KNOWLEDGE do not.

either way a bugged zchest exclusive skin does not prove anything still dropping. maybe there is any skin that has been added after the mentioned bugfix and fits the criteria (insc area drop, no staff, drops in gold rarity), that, if existing bugged, could prove the point, but I'd not be aware of one.

so in order to go a little more in depth on how the bugged insc weapons occur:

maybe you can see a pattern in the following screens of the bugged staves that turned up on the forums:

remember: those are not filtered by a mod, instead it is just all the insc exclusive drops that were dropped without inscription and popped up here on pc (we did collect way more data from farms and own drops and others that claimed to have dropped them in insc area, where the skin however wouldn't prove that, so I did only include those bullet proof ones). It becomes VERY apparent that there is a pattern: they all have an insightful staff head. On the other hand not all staves that do drop with an insightful head are uninsc. so what do we make of that?

there is a duplicate removal routine somewhere in gw as it seems, which happens to mark insightful + energy in the same category as inscription that grant energy. so if the combination occurs - boom the latter mod gets discarded, which is... the inscription. Same was the case with slaying mods and dmg increasing inscriptions: both were in the category damage modifier and thus the latter mod got discarded... which was the inscription. so they fixed it by making the routine not detect those in the same category anymore, which is how the bugged insc martial were erased from the possible drops.

there are similar things to observe: an os shield can not have two mods in the same category - like two hp mods or two armor mods. and the one droppin dual at some point was damage reduction. again the routine did check for duplicate mobs and removed them, but somehow someone skipped the -x wS mod to add to that category - which is why ALL dualreduction shields have the -x wS as one of their two reduction mods. the bugfix is obvious from there. similarly an os foc never could drop with two hct mods. nor a foc. nor a staff. interestingly a staff can not even drop with two hct mods applied! but in that case the staff head was removed, so it is not a bugged one. it seems to have to do with the order in which mods appear defaulted on wepons. just for completion: they did obviously also group the inherent energy mod on a staff differently than the +energy from mods or inscs, so those do drop.

so with this said I tried to outline HOW the bugged insc area items were and are created, and from there challenge you to explain: what other mod combo out there could trigger a duplicate removal routine so that any martials could still get a insc removed leading to bugged insc area martials?

Quote from Red Fireball

there is a duplicate removal routine somewhere in gw as it seems, which happens to mark insightful + energy in the same category as inscription that grant energy. so if the combination occurs - boom the latter mod gets discarded, which is... the inscription.

does that mean insightful staffhead can't drop with a 5energy insc (a +5 +5 energy combo)? because now im not sure if i've actually ever seen that or not.

Quote

interestingly a staff can not even drop with two hct mods applied! but in that case the staff head was removed, so it is not a bugged one.

i have observed that i don't ever find adept staff heads on os staves, which made me wonder if that weapon mod even existed before insc weapons.

Quote from trademeimfamous

does that mean insightful staffhead can't drop with a 5energy insc (a +5 +5 energy combo)? because now im not sure if i've actually ever seen that or not.

exactly! you also cannot drop one that has a hale head plus fortitude wrap or defensive head plus wrap of defense/shelter/warding.

Quote from trademeimfamous

i have observed that i don't ever find adept staff heads on os staves, which made me wonder if that weapon mod even existed

absolutely did not. they were added with nf and only drop in insc area. same for swift.