Sale of botted items on Legacy

Wheres the popcorn

Allthough im mostly against botting, i have to say, that allot of cool items would simply not exist in the market if they were not botted, meaning some collectors would have given up, moved on, or simply lost interest. Is Legacy the place to sell botted items? probably not, is a place to sell super cool items that that havnt been admited to being botted. YES, even if they have been. Unless the owned specificly says they have been botted i would say its ok. But opening saying something that is being sold has been botted sure does blur some lines.

Why am I being @'d here.

I don't care where the items come from, neither does anyone bidding on them.

Just a short fact:

If people buy stuff from stores in real life, they dont think about where it came from or what is behind that (most of them).

I dont want to support botters but thats like industry, people want to consum for a cheap price

All those pcons we are using is mostly botted i guess

If botters dont sell on legacy then in the end they sell it in kamadan. Legacy might be a tool. But not the source of it. Soluting problems starts from the source

Thank you for mentioning me. Those players who know me they know what my opinion is. Using a Bot in any game is really unfair, and myself i think is dishonorable. If there would be a vote what the botters deserve Bann or No Bann i would highly recommend bann. This game is to play it, like all of the games.

Thats my opinion.

But ... i really need to ask myself, and the community. From where you know you did never buy an item that was farmed by a bot/a player who used bot.

And the other question and a thinkable thing, where should Guild Wars be now, if there was no bots farming the items. So lets be really clear. I do not support botting and have sickness just from hearing or reading someone uses bot. But and this is a Big But ... Will players who play fairly could provide the amount of items needed for other players and themselves? What would be with all that wealth what players did get since the start of the game. I am wondering who will have what. In my opinion and for me is really sad that some players are using bots in this game. For conclusion i do really think Arena Net Moderators did nerf the drop rates/and stuff because of the bots in game. And i am asking myself, what if bots never existed in Guild Wars. Then the game would be completely dead? Or there would be a right balance in the game for every player.

Many question. I am wondering if Arena Net would make a Total Clear in the game for those who are using bots/or used bots. What would be the population of players in the game.

Its really interesting to think on this. Myself i try to let this all botting misery go out of my head and dont think to it. Sometimes i can let go but sometimes really frustrates me.

To be really honest myself playing this game from the start i did work for everything i got, and i am not so lucky. I am not wealthy, but i am fine.

And for the last thing, there is some difference buying stuff online for usage ingame but i still think that affect the game too, maybe in a bad direction, maybe not.

Interested to see other comments.

Thank you again for mentioning me and wish the best.

Some items on this site are botted, some are scammed from returning player at kama & at the end of the day noone cares about that (even the devs) . Its a 16yo dead game , stop bitching about useless things and enjoy whats left in the game , if you dont wanna buy what you think are botted or scammed items please don't , many players dont care about where its coming from and just want to get their hands on an item they desire because thats what makes them happy .

dont @ me next time ty

Hello, it looks like a Z movie with a stereotypical villain. We all know it's him but no one can stop him.

What does he do with the sales revenue? By having this answer we would be able to better capture his mindset. But saying openly "I use a bot" is pretty stupid, we would agree.

You are doing can you boycott it, nothing else. Nobody can stop the bots on this game. It was up to Anet to do it years ago and they did nothing. End of story, the bad guy wins.

Quote from bsoltan

No Legacy rules are broken so no action necessary.

Interested to see what people think.

Well, everybody went off topic immediately, even though Dadan asked not to

But I'd be interested if you or any other mod could expand a bit and answer the original question. Have you given any thought recently about what kind of board you want Legacy to be?

There are users who don't mind bots and there are users who do mind, so will you consider removing/adding any forum rules (you have changed rules before, it's possible) if there is a wish for it from users? Not taking action is also a statement, and Dadan's fears that Legacy will simply turn into a market for botted items may even come true. I can't really believe you are OK with that (extreme) scenario, because why then would you have created all the other subforums like q&a, farming, builds, etc.? I'm not criticising one side or the other, but just honestly interested in how the legacy team thinks about it

Bots have always been in this game and will always be.

For sure the game would have gone in a different path that it is now if there was no bots.

I think that back in the days, when devs were still able to do major changes, they could have implemented something else to answer the community needs (mostly thinking about pcons)

What else do you want more ?

zkeys ? go and do some pvp

nice OS items ? go and farm/chestrun it

a polar ? try your luck at the wintersday dungeon's endchest

For sure the chances are little to get what you want, but this game has always been about grinding. You don't get your gwamm in 2 days.

Before being flamed about how long is it to get this item or this title, remember the game is nearly 16 years old, it can surely seems unfair for newest players, but in the meantime does it seems fair for old players who spent countless hours trying to get something ?

To come back to the main topic, and that's my personal opinion, I love the game, love the community, and I don't think allowing this kind of behavior does any good to both of it.

Because at the end it profits only to a small percentage of the players, while affecting a way bigger percentage, directly or indirectly

The gwlegacy teams put a lot of time, efforts and money to allow us gathering here, and that's not their job to do the guild wars police.

Everyone has their own opinion/attachment to the game, a different approach to it.

But there is others guild wars websites where people are less regarding to what / how it happens

Legacy being the main community website, I don't think being able to blatantly exploiting the game should be tolerated.

I want everyone using toolbox banned from game and gw legacy.

First l'd like to thank you for creating this discussion, and for the tag.

Now, let's get one thing out of the way - bots are needed. No matter out personal views, they are needed.

To elaborate that, l'll start by defining botting. It is using 3rd party programming (instantly breaking EULA, as stated) to script toons (bots) to automatically perform certain actions, with little to no human input. To put it in other words, botting emulates human players.

Second, gw, as most other proper mmos has its own economy. Unlike real world, gw economy isn't interlinked with say, wow economy - it is self-contained, isolated on anet servers. You can compare this to real world Countries facing trade bans, or cold war soviet union to a degree. Imagine a Ban cutting off China - it would be shock at first, but a billion people is enough to make economy sustainable, as it is world in itself. It wouldn't grow but it wouldn't be lacking either.

Now, look at Cuba, a country that has endured 50+ years of isolation with a very limited population. It hasn't died, and in some areas (medicine) it is advanced and self reliant and just works. But on the other hand, they are mostly stuck with 50yr old cars...

The point is, gw May have started as China, but is now reduced to Cuba. And yes, some things could work, but some if not most would be lost. The size of gw economy can only be artificialy increased at this point - through emulating missing players.

Of course, in the end all those bottled items only profit handful of players (l'd include a remark or two on Ether at this point but l'll restrain myself). But as other have pointed out - whales of gw already have so much, with some early exploits yielding unimaginable amounts and incredible items, it's hard to Imagine anything tipping the balance in anyone other favor.

Speaking of balance, one of my jewels is dual zealous spiked club, which to my knowledge came from unids made from botting. As someone who only started collecting less than a year ago, there's no way in hell l could ever find one in a game with only several thousand players left (at best). Even with all the botting around it's incredibly rare. Without botting, items like this would only exist as long forgotten bytes, zeros and ones, on long inactive accounts, now only distant memories. And that would be a bloody shame.

The morality of it... Well, l'll paraphrase what Kabong once Told me -botting is there, the only thing you that each of us can affect is how close to the source are you. My personal take is to be as far as possible.

Now looking at this very long post, l know it sounds contradictory, but that is life. Anyone who ever dabbled in politics at any level can attest that world is horrible, with shades of grey all around, horrible people you despise using you and you using them, with only one thing that matters in the end - it's looking at yourself in the mirror every night. And if you think losing parts of your soul is worth the bigger picture, than maybe it's not all lost. In this case, l hope it is not.

And now to get on topic - l don't know what gw legacy stance on those threads should be. Maybe allow it but also put reaction options on sale threads? Dunno

Cheers and Thanks for bearing with me to the end of the post. Go treat yourself with something, you've earned it

I've played the game on and off for >15 years. (like many others)

• I have traded items in-game without knowing they were botted
• I have sold items or consumables to possible botters

That being said, I got most of my in-game wealth by farming ectos (one by one the old-fashioned way) and trading. I hate bots and absolutely hate gold sellers. But no matter what I think, they've always existed. They mess up the economy even if we don't interact with them. They make what we gain in-game feel like crap, and there is nothing I can do about it. Except maybe start botting myself, which I absolutely do NOT want to do.

---------- (Now back to the main topic...) ----------

In my opinion, the threads on Legacy simply CANNOT be purged of the influences of botting, even if any rules were changed and the moderators start spending hours verifying each thread (which is impossible and also an inappropriate request to them). If accounts or threads were banned/deleted, the botters can simply create a new account and a new thread, and claim that everything is legit. Actually, how many items on the WTS threads were botted? 30%? 50%? Or maybe more than 80%? We can never know for sure.

I would not want Legacy to openly support botters, but they have been using the forums for a long time. Just like Kamadan, or the whole game in general. Where there are humans, there is evil, and evil can't be rooted out. In the end, my suggestion is: Prohibit openly advertising botting and trading of confirmed botted items. (but unless the seller openly says the items were botted, there may be no way to confirm) Then, let the people decide the rest. If you don't like bots, don't buy from them, don't take from them, and stay as far away from them as possible. (That's what I'm going to do)

I love this game and hope for the best for everyone who plays it.

Yeah, I'll be your devil's advocate. Botting (and programs like toolbox) can be fun, too. But, the unfortunate side effect is that it can affect those who don't use them. The one bad thing I will say about bots, in general, is that it's a shame when they are used to gain a competitive edge against others like on a leader board (ie. Diablo 2, Diablo 3, etc.). The PvP bots in this game don't really do that (no one cares if you bought a Hero Rank 15 account) and no one is forced to purchase the products of PvE botting. Perfect quality PvE items can be obtained solo with minimal effort. However, I have heard of interrupt bots (others?) being used in GvG which actually destroys the game's integrity. Bots used for that purpose should be the focus of banning.

As far as the forum goes, I do not believe Legacy has a place in determining what should and should not be said in public places provided the rules are not breached. Freedom of speech and less regulation is always better. The community has free will to decide what they will or will not do. Period.

Quote from Spun Ducky

My advice is enjoy the game however gives you fun. Even these massive bot farms can't catch up to 16 year strong power traders in wealth.

This.

Quote from Speed Clear Ele

Why am I being @'d here.

I don't care where the items come from, neither does anyone bidding on them.

+1 to this.

I am off from this thread. In the last i am saying, Enjoy the game how it is, and chill while you are playing. That is the main reason you play i think.

Was interesting to read all the posts. I did think alot about what did players write here. In my name i can just say like some before me. Stay as far away as you can from botting/botters. But in one way or another most of players will get a botted stuff in game, because you cant really tell what is botted or not.

Thank you again for mentioning me, and wish you the best.

Quote from Pleikki

I want everyone using toolbox banned from game and gw llegacy.o

I want everyone named Pleik...

Accepting an admitted cheater (booted from phd for same) into your guild and then promoting his activities by trading for the product of his ill-gotten gains and proudly posting it repeatedly.

Pretty nauseating from someone who tries to portray this squeaky clean i-want-whats-best-for-everyone persona...but now goes down as one of the biggest supporters of botting/cheating on record.

Time to get over yourself, face reality and accept what you really are? Hmm?

Wow That's bad modding.

Worst I've seen.

Quote from Spun Ducky

Legacy can't control things in game so what would a proposed solution be that isn't a clusterfuck and waste of time witch hunt?

Ban and blacklist known self confessed users of bots that have the audacity to blatantly share their cheating data? It's not a witch hunt or a cluster fuck when they have defacto / actually confessed. Ether Wana try and defend or deny this? Would love to hear ur retort

This thread will be censored faster than light
I'm surprized it's not locked yet.

it's OBVIOUS than some people here protected by mods ....

Yes, if it was up to me i would ban everyone using toolbox and that would include 90% of players from my friends and guild, and ppl know my feeling about it.

I dont in otherhand think ppl should be crusified for their actions by me or other players, i think that everyone has a right to play the game as they want and accept the possible penalties from anet or who ever made the rules.

im friends with ppl who used bots and ppl who used toolbox and probably anything, theyre friends because theyre nice persons and they know i might not like what they do, i accept their way to play and same time id ban every of them. In Yojis case, hes been friend of mine for long time, never lied but hes honest and nice guy to me and i got no reason not to belive what he says. He says he doesnt bot then thats it. period.

I've been myself too in situation when i had all the time in world and ran hundreds of chests a day, thousand in a week so i got no reason belive its not possible either.

Witch hunts like these dont serve purpose to me, and its for a fact that moderators neither can have resources to do stuff like that, and they shouldnt.

I dont think things like these should be promoted either, but selling items via forums etc allways been possible, you never can know whats botted even if u think someting is it might not be and vise versa, noneone can really know for sure.

I'm sorry i am late to this party, but i had like 20 guests on another party celebrating my brother's birthday.

i will be 100% honest like i always was.

What i did exactly is dual account chest running for about 5 months, quite a decent amount of hours everyday, my work allowed me to do so.

i did around 500 magmas shields in this 5 months compared to Ether he just did 500 Magmas Shields in what ? 1-2 weeks?

i do use Toolbox to open chests from afar as 90% of chest runners do aswell.

It is rly easy to dual acc chest run with autowalk (ingame feature) and Toolbox in (Hell's you just Cripple the only danger to you ''Titans'' & and Outcast Shields in Rhea's crater while auto walk in Hell's)

Yes i exagerate with chesting, i have too much spare time but i never did Botting. i only have 3 accounts.

My alt ''Outcast Shields'' it was created only for that purpose alone to run Outcast chests, i know the name is suspicious but it is what it is.

My other alt for Magmas shields is not mine, is from a very good friend in real life, it has many titles, i won't ever dare to risk getting it banned doing botting bs.

i'm not mad on anybody, i am a bit suspicious cuz i play a lot sometimes. But don't acuse me of cheating whem im actually working hard.

Much love to you all ! great community!

Fairly new on Legacy but been playin' GW for 15 years. I've never run a bot in my life.

I don't think that botting is the devil, and that it actually should be allowed in some forms.

I do believe that restricting botters' sales would be beneficial for the game. For example, making a sitewide selling restriction of x amount of items per week per user would not only allow this market to continue thriving but also stabilize it a bit; on top of forcing the extreme cases of users with a hundred accounts to bot other things like materials, cons and arms thus driving the prices for commodities down a tad. If you love the game, be the change you want to see in it? Just a thought.
If we're to follow that idea through, then a zero tolerance policy for people caught making multiple Legacy accounts should be instated... But that means a lot more work for the admins and I don't know if they're up to it, I haven't been around long enough.

Additionally, I think that a botting service should be allowed to be offered on the site. Pay x amount of arms for a specific item that needs to be farmed. This would allow the botters to make more money with the aforementioned restriction in place, while still allowing them to sell whatever else they get within the weekly restriction.

Quote from Serenity36

Additionally, I think that a botting service should be allowed to be offered on the site. Pay x amount of arms for a specific item that needs to be farmed. This would allow the botters to make more money with the aforementioned restriction in place, while still allowing them to sell whatever else they get within the weekly restriction

This is parody right?

Thanks for the tag. Dadan

First of I'm a noob tbh, a 15 yr old still learning GW noob.

I just learned about botting 3 years ago when I first came back from the long break that a lot of us has so my opinion about them isn't much.

Second off I'm sure botting affects the economy of the game, I remember when gold coins was like 5-10eor something like that, now its 1e each that's insane.

But I must admit, I indirectly benefit from the bots cause I didn't have to spend a fortune for multiple heavy bags nd bag upgrades. As far as chest running bots, idk. I like a lot of the items people sell from them so I cant hate on it. like pervious posters on this thread have been saying, enjoy this ancient game the way you that makes you enjoy yourself, as long as your not harming others. (like gvg intrupt)

Third nd Finale off, I personally could care less man like.. I see alot of passionate Guildwardians really against certain things like this and like that, and I get it, this is the game you love, the game you're passionate about. but for me that's a lot of unnecessary energy man but idk it is entertaining to read the beefs and wonder how the beef started, its hilarious man but, like I said, I am a noob I just found out about the double clicking of names to target player like a few months ago...blew my mind

Quote from PyroLobster

This is parody right?

It isn't, am I missing something?

Serenity36

You are suggesting a sanctioned organized bot request service. People posting on legacy an item they want botted to "allow botters to make more money".

You want to tailor legacy to financially benefit people cheating at the game.

Only somebody with brain damage could think that was a good idea.

Hope this clarifies my previous statement.

Quote from PyroLobster

Serenity36

You are suggesting a sanctioned organized bot request service. People posting on legacy an item they want botted to "allow botters to make more money".

You want to tailor legacy to financially benefit people cheating at the game.

Only somebody with brain damage could think that was a good idea.

Hope this clarifies my previous statement.

I'm suggesting to legitimize and then control (and maybe tax? middlemen?) something people are already doing anyway, as a "meet in the middle" gesture that goes hand in hand with the restrictions I proposed earlier in my post. There are numerous organizations that have done research on the legalization of Marijuana and Prostitution and have proven that previous offenders not only respond well, but are more than happy to go about their business in a sanctioned and socially accepted way. They've also shown a high decrease in offenses that are related but not covered by the aforementioned legislations (e.g. if I'm gonna go to prison for 5g of weed, I might as well carry a kilo).
All this being on the sociological spectrum of things, there is no reason to believe that doing something similar will not have the same effects within an MMO. People are gonna bot anyway, no matter what you do; might as well try to channel that in a productive and less harmful way.

If anyone else is interested in talking about this in a constructive manner, please feel free to @ me. This is merely an idea and I'm willing to develop or kill it, as long as childish and petty shit like Pyro's stays out of it.

We should legitimize cheating so we can tax it.

Botting in a MMO is comparable prostitution in society.

I now don't believe you that this isn't satire rofl

Quote from PyroLobster

A far more appropriate comparison would be somebody counterfeiting money or financial assets. Would you want to legitimatize that and tax it? Wana sanction and be a middle man for somebody creating there own money? OR would you come to the obvious conclusion that it is an unfair advantage, disincentives competition from legitimate sources and is wrong.

I'd be okay with someone printing money in a situation where

A) our central bank kinda died

B) we could control how much money is being printed.

Sales of 500+ items are ridicilous. It will soon make any chest running or farming obsolete and that's a fact.

The anet didn't implement 2 things that would prevent such things from ever happening and balance player wealth at same time (stronger anti-botting policies and centralized in-game auction house to further balance ). With that said, we can either ignore what's going on, have endless witch hunts OR start trying to do sth about it and prolong the game we all like a bit more. It may be beginning slippery slope, but it's better than doing nothing...